Justified shooting against dog?

[avboiler11]

This is my 3.5 year old, smallish (55lb) male black lab Jake (with my 20mo old son Eric).

Last week I was walking Jake around my neighborhood when a <40lb english bulldog came off a front porch toward us. The bulldog be-bopped over to us and didn't approach aggressively, so I commanded Jake to sit (he did) and locked his retractable leash at about 2ft like I've done a few dozen times when approached by dogs in our neighborhood over the last couple years. The bulldog walked up to Jake, sniffed him, stood there for about 3 seconds, then snarled and lunged for Jake's neck.

I immediately pulled Jake to my back right side and kicked the bulldog square in the head. Bulldog quickly regained his composure and lunged again; it did this 4 total times, with the bulldog taking 4 kicks to the head and causing us to spin in a 360 degree circle. Whole thing happened VERY quickly, maybe 4-5 seconds.

After the 4th kick to the noggin the bulldog seemed a bit fuzzy, and I (foolishly) reached down and pushed it back away from Jake and I with my left hand. By the time the bulldog stopped from my push his owner had reached us (she was moving her car from the street to driveway when this happened, not knowing the dog followed her out of the house), snatched the bulldog up, and threw it in the house. Her husband came out of the house (he had been in the shower and heard the commotion) and they both apologized up and down to me.

In the end, Jake didn't get a scratch on him and neither one of us was physically any worse for wear, so I told the folks to not worry about it and have a good evening. But on the way back to our house while trying to lower my heartrate and blood pressure, the throught crossed my mind that if I had been carrying (which I do almost never), I'd have drawn and shot that dog the first time it snarled and lunged at Jake. It just as easily could have lunged at me any of the times I kicked it, or when I stupidly reached down and pushed it away from us. It also could have been my wife walking Jake and not me.

Given the above description, would that have been legally considered a "good shoot"? I love my dog as he's a family member and would hate to put down anybody else's pet, but that sentiment ends the moment it acts aggressively towards me OR my dog.

FWIW, I do have a lifetime Personal Protection license but am not terribly familiar with Indiana laws. I plan on getting more familiar with them...

 

[fullmetaljesus]

I think you did everything right. If after several kicks and it was still lunging then MAYBE shoot, or try kicking harder. You have to remember, if you shoot the dog and the bullet passes through the dogs body hits the road and bounces up and strikes a person or a car or what ever, you have to own up to that bullet. Squeezing the trigger should be last ditch effort to save you and yours.

 

[serpicostraight]

ask liberty sanders. he has some experience on stuff like this.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I'd not shoot a dog that was attacking my dog.

I may be forced to shoot a dog that's attacking me / mine / someone else.

-J-

 

[lovemachine]

I love my dog. But, I wouldn't shoot another dog to protect him. Don't get me wrong, I would want to.

But, if I was in your situation, I would have done the same. Kick, punch, whatever, to get the dog off from my own dog.

If the dog then attacked me, that's when I'd shoot.

You did right.

 

[eldirector]

To my knowledge, our "self-defense" laws only apply to defending yourself from people, not animals. I don't know of any State law about shooting a nuisance animal. County/local ordinances would certainly apply. Plenty of folks have gotten grief for "illegal discharge of a firearm" when defending themselves against dogs.

That said, I would have no issue putting down a nuisance animal if need be.

I think you did well keeping you and your dog from injury, using just enough force to protect yourself.

 

[glockednlocked]

You did well! Shooting a dog in full attack/fight is a really hard shot. I think it would be a very narrow window where justification and ability met that would lead to me firing a shot that might do more harm than good.

 

[Ted]

A pet is property, and force may be used to protect it.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).

 

[eldirector]

I don't think IC 35-41-3-2 applies to dogs. As much as some folks love them, they are still not people.

 

[avboiler11]

I don't think IC 35-41-3-2 applies to dogs. As much as some folks love them, they are still not people.

Unless its a police K9 officer...

 

[Ted]

Puckett v. Miller, 381 N.E.2d 1087 (Ind. App. 1978).

Defendant was protected in his shooting of dogs by state statutes that provided that any dog known to have worried any livestock or fowl, or any dog found unattended and roaming over the country may be lawfully killed.

 

[Westside]

I think you did everything right. If after several kicks and it was still lunging then MAYBE shoot, or try kicking harder. You have to remember, if you shoot the dog and the bullet passes through the dogs body hits the road and bounces up and strikes a person or a car or what ever, you have to own up to that bullet. Squeezing the trigger should be last ditch effort to save you and yours.

A gun should always be your last option. you handled the situation correctly.

 

[wizard_of_ahs]

I'd not shoot a dog that was attacking my dog.

I may be forced to shoot a dog that's attacking me / mine / someone else.

-J-

Officer, I was afraid for my life, no, my dog never left my side !!!!

 

[gungirl65]

I would never shoot a dog on the first lunge. Probably at least every couple months we are approached, sometimes aggressively, by an unrestrained dog while walking our male dog. Although the first few seconds sound very scary sometimes, nothing has ever happened. Nothing I haven't been able to handle with a stern voice and steady grip on the leash. I would not let anything happen to my dog, but I won't kill someone else's dog if I can help it. I might be inclined to kick or mace an aggressive dog, but shooting it would be my absolute last resort. I would never shoot a dog just because I legally could and it was the easy thing to do to stop the confrontation.

When we walk our dog we have very high situation awareness going on. My son & I watch for unrestrained dogs and change our course as necessary. I do not want to ever have to penalize a dog just because their owner is a negligent POS.

 

[eldirector]

Puckett v. Miller, 381 N.E.2d 1087 (Ind. App. 1978).

Defendant was protected in his shooting of dogs by state statutes that provided that any dog known to have worried any livestock or fowl, or any dog found unattended and roaming over the country may be lawfully killed.

Good find!

Looks like IC 15-5-8-1 and 15-5-8-3 were the quoted codes. Unfortunately, they have since been repealed.

They have been replaced by:

IC 15-20-2-2
Authority to kill dog injuring livestock
Sec. 2. A person who observes a dog in the act of killing or injuring livestock may kill the dog if the person has the consent of the person in possession of the real estate on which the dog is found.

 

[Bunnykid68]

If you are restraining your dog and your dog is being attacked, I would say you are being attacked also. Should have kicked that dog in the ribs, bulldogs have very tough heads.

 

[GLOCK1982]

I think it was well played. I do believe that the dog was a threat to you and your son as well. It probably could have been justified firing a weapon. Always kick a dog in the ribs or the guts when you can. It puts em down.

 

[Lucas156]

Funny this story popped up my dog was attacked by another dog while going for a walk the other day. Thankfully the owner was able to intervene before my lab snapped its neck . I did have my gun on me but didn't think it was a good idea to shoot. It all happened so fast. I wish some people would restrain their animals

 

[Lucas156]

Maybe I'll carry a taser or mace for next time something like this occurs. Funny side story. Last night was walking the dog and a person had their dog tied to a bucket of like three hundred golf balls. The dog ran over to us and the golf balls went ALLover the place. Luckily the dog just wanted to sniff my dog and they were friendly

 

[handgun]

Your dog is your property, Thus forth you have the right to protect it and no duty to retreat from harm. The other animal was attempting a force-able felony by attempting to attack your Property with deadly force. (Teeth)

Dogs are not People, Unless they are are Police Dog. If you shoot and kill a police dog in the line of duty, it is just as bad if you shot and killed a Police officer.