Is there an attorney in the house?

[henry0reilly]

It seems to me that it would be great legal tool to record the signing of things like contracts and especially liability releases, with the parties discussing any relevant issues on the video. Is there done anywhere?

 

[wcd]

It seems to me that it would be great legal tool to record the signing of things like contracts and especially liability releases, with the parties discussing any relevant issues on the video. Is there done anywhere?

Legal advice is like anything else you get what you pay for. Short of that researching the statutes of your state, and having a copy of BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY will go a long way.

 

[WebSnyper]

It seems to me that it would be great legal tool to record the signing of things like contracts and especially liability releases, with the parties discussing any relevant issues on the video. Is there done anywhere?

I get what you are saying, but the contract is the contract. If it's not in the contract, then it's not part of the contract. A video would muddy the waters of the written contract, and I'm guessing most lawyers would say don't sign it if you have concerns.

And yes, there are a few attorneys on INGO.

 

[Frosty]

I thought that was the point of a notary?

 

[wcd]

I thought that was the point of a notary?

Winner winner Chicken dinner. For most jurisdictions if there is doubt with regards to contract, the written document will be followed by law. GIVEN THE CONTRACT WAS A VALID CONTRACT.

Ie offer acceptance and consideration and it has to be for a lawful purpose.

 

[Shadow01]

I never sign liability release forms. I’ve had customers refuse my entry to repair their communication issues because of my refusal. They ask what are they expected to do since I won’t sign. I tell them they need to learn telecom trouble shooting real quick.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You are discussing the use of parol evidence in contracts?

 

[BJHay]

I was associated with skydiving schools in Illinois and Indiana that, of course, had their first jump students sign waivers. As the waivers were distributed to the class a video was played showing the attorney who wrote it explaining what the waiver meant and exactly what rights were being waived. If there was a dispute later on the school could demonstrate the document was properly explained prior to signing.

This was back in the late 1990's. I visited many similar operations over the years and didn't see that practice anywhere else.

I don't think that's exactly what you were asking but maybe it's helpful.

 

[HoughMade]

You are discussing the use of parol evidence in contracts?

I would prefer not to have to discuss it by ensuring that the contract terms are fully expressed within its 4 corners with and absence of contemporaneous recordings which may raise doubt.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I would prefer not to have to discuss it by ensuring that the contract terms are fully expressed within its 4 corners with and absence of contemporaneous recordings which may raise doubt.

Pffft, you and your reason and logic and education.

 

[churchmouse]

I never sign liability release forms. I’ve had customers refuse my entry to repair their communication issues because of my refusal. They ask what are they expected to do since I won’t sign. I tell them they need to learn telecom trouble shooting real quick.

I was the same way. If their property was not well kept and safe and caused me harm it was on them. Trust me to be professional in my work and stay the **** out of my way. I would also not surrender my DL to them while working in any facility as many demanded of contractors. You know I am here. You do not need my DL for any real reasons I can think of.

 

[yote hunter]

I object !
Always wanted to say that…..

 

[yote hunter]

Objection your honor !
Always wanted to say that too.

 

[HoughMade]

Objection your honor !
Always wanted to say that too.

It's not as fun as it sounds.

 

[Shadow01]

I was the same way. If their property was not well kept and safe and caused me harm it was on them. Trust me to be professional in my work and stay the **** out of my way. I would also not surrender my DL to them while working in any facility as many demanded of contractors. You know I am here. You do not need my DL for any real reasons I can think of.

I was refused entry into. A .gov military vx property because I refused to give up my DL and my SS number to an unknown contractor so they could verify that I was not a known terrorist. I told them their needs was not important enough to me to give them private information that this unknown contractor could abuse.

 

[tackdriver]

I would prefer not to have to discuss it by ensuring that the contract terms are fully expressed within its 4 corners with and absence of contemporaneous recordings which may raise doubt.

That seems logical and reasonable. However, what defense attorney tells his client "Well, if you don't want the police to misunderstand you, then make sure you use a lot more words, and be as articulate as possible. If you can only communicate in writing, and avoid audio and video, even better!"

That doesn't seem as reasonable to me, and I can understand the same principles working for a contract, to some extent. I think the OP has an interesting question. "The warranty clearly ONLY covers purple tractors. That one is blue!" Now, a video of the sales guy selling the tractor, repeatedly calling it purple... could it be helpful, or just muddy the water?

Unfortunately, there are a couple, maybe even a few (??) crafty attorneys out there who excel at moving the four corners around, redefining the fully expressed terms, and raising significant doubt where none had ever existed. They're pretty good with written deposition transcripts too, and an audio/video of the live communication might be useful.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I was refused entry into. A .gov military vx property because I refused to give up my DL and my SS number to an unknown contractor so they could verify that I was not a known terrorist. I told them their needs was not important enough to me to give them private information that this unknown contractor could abuse.

That "unknown contractor" likely had security clearance himself, so while he may have been "unknown" to you, I assure you he was not unknown to them.

 

[tackdriver]

I get what you are saying, but the contract is the contract. If it's not in the contract, then it's not part of the contract.

Agreed, but there is often language used in the contract, that is later debated. How often have the courts looked to contemporaneous writings etc. to determine the intended meaning of the language (Constituion?). Meanings of words debated in prior cases, that the contract parties never knew about, can determine the use of the word in the present case. I think there is a lot that can actually define the contract, that isn't inside the contract, and wasn't considered at the signing, when people choose to fight it out.

 

[HoughMade]

That seems logical and reasonable. However, what defense attorney tells his client "Well, if you don't want the police to misunderstand you, then make sure you use a lot more words, and be as articulate as possible. If you can only communicate in writing, and avoid audio and video, even better!"

That doesn't seem as reasonable to me, and I can understand the same principles working for a contract, to some extent. I think the OP has an interesting question. "The warranty clearly ONLY covers purple tractors. That one is blue!" Now, a video of the sales guy selling the tractor, repeatedly calling it purple... could it be helpful, or just muddy the water?

Unfortunately, there are a couple, maybe even a few (??) crafty attorneys out there who excel at moving the four corners around, redefining the fully expressed terms, and raising significant doubt where none had ever existed. They're pretty good with written deposition transcripts too, and an audio/video of the live communication might be useful.

In criminal law....a competent attorney would likely tell his client not to talk at all. It comes pretty close to malpractice and ineffective assistance to counsel otherwise without a very specific and unusual situation being present (like a deal having already been worked out).

BTW- I've been practicing law for almost 25 years, often in contract law. In the drafting and formation of contracts, I want clarity which means limiting what can be used to interpret the contract to the contract itself. No extra-contractual communications which could cause confusion.

In fact, most of my contracts include a clause like this:

"Integration. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between “X” and “Y” with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersedes all prior proposals, negotiations, communications, and agreements between “X” and “Y” with respect to the subject matter hereof, whether oral or written. This Agreement shall not be amended or modified except by a subsequent written agreement between duly authorized representatives of “X” and “Y”."

Now, if there already is a contract, any ambiguity that is present, I will try to exploit for my client's benefit...and so will the other guy. Therefore, if I am drafting the contract, I will eliminate all of the ambiguity possible. You don't build ambiguity in hoping to exploit it later. You make everything crystal clear without the presence of conflicts so that everyone knows exactly what their responsibilities under the contract are.

 

[Shadow01]

That "unknown contractor" likely had security clearance himself, so while he may have been "unknown" to you, I assure you he was not unknown to them.

And being a fed agency I would have had zero recourse if that contractor was selling private info and the military was unaware.

is every person that wears the uniform a stand up person without a seedy background? I have less of a secure feeling about a contractor.