Interacting with police when you're armed.

[CathyInBlue]

Yes, let us know how that works out for you, attempting to take control of the police officer's stop, on the street, and threats of legal action against the officer, on the street. My guess is that you'd inflate an infraction into a misdemeanor or possibly a felony and go to jail...and still blame the police for Your actions.

If you don't like what is going on and feel wronged, you have plenty of recourse after the fact. Trying to get into a pissing match on the street is a no-winner for you. But, like my daddy always used to say, 'You go ahead and do whatever it is you're big enough to get away with'

(Just trying to give some good, practical advice to keep you liberty-free and options open, do with it or not what you will )

Yeah, because I have my lawyer in tow everywhere I go just in case I get pulled over by an overzealous and undertrained LEO. Let's have a closer look at that context, shall we?

I also further have audio from my complaint to a supervisor where he states them taking it wasn't a seizure since they gave it back and that it didn't violate my rights as it was not a warrantless seizure of my property.

So, we were talking about what happens after the fact at the PDHQ while filing a complaint, not in the field.

Thank you for playing.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Yes, let us know how that works out for you, attempting to take control of the police officer's stop, on the street, and threats of legal action against the officer, on the street. My guess is that you'd inflate an infraction into a misdemeanor or possibly a felony and go to jail...and still blame the police for Your actions.

If you don't like what is going on and feel wronged, you have plenty of recourse after the fact. Trying to get into a pissing match on the street is a no-winner for you. But, like my daddy always used to say, 'You go ahead and do whatever it is you're big enough to get away with'

(Just trying to give some good, practical advice to keep you liberty-free and options open, do with it or not what you will )

Yes, it is good and practical advice. Your daddy was a smart man...

 

[Dirtebiker]

lets see. writing tickets is a tough job, if there is a danger of someone shooting you cause they dont want a ticket. or are wanted for something.
i have not been pulled over since i started carrying. just lucky. everything i wrote will be used until i am givin a reason not to do that. pocket knife? once i had to step out of the vehicle, yes the officers would know of my knife.
it seems to me, that people come on the interwebz and complain about cops being high strung and pushy.
then some people offer solutions to help the police relax a little, and everybody lets them know how bad the idea is, but offer none of their own.
If i get pulled over. i was probly doing something stupid.
i am going to make their job quick and easy. it increases the chances of me getting out of there quickly and usually without a ticket.

and yes i cc. what am i hiding? My gun. i will continue to hide my gun until a police officer is in position that i feel he needs to know about it, and then i will inform him. this works for me. you do what works for you.

When has someone shot a cop JUST because they didn't want a ticket? Wanted for something else, yes. But show me just ONE instance where a legally licensed to carry individual has EVER shot a cop for ANY reason, and I will give your idea some credence!
Also, if any one of our respected officers on this board tells us that writing speeding tickets is a "tough job", then I'll change my response to that.

So, you won't tell the cop about your knife ,but you want him to know about your gun right away. I agree, if I have to exit the car, or if they are going to see it, I will let them know in advance, but if not, there is absolutely NO reason to bring up anything that has nothing to do with the stop!
I haven't seen what you're talking about (statements of cops being "high strung and pushy"), but how does your "solution" "help the police relax"?
As to your comment,"everybody lets them know how bad the idea is, but offer none of their own", I and others have offered our ideas.
My thought is, if I'm pulled over for speeding or any other traffic infraction, I roll my window down enough to talk with the officer, keep my hands on the steering wheel, give him my license and registration if and when asked, wait for my ticket or warning, and get on my way as soon as possible.
How can the action of informing "make their job quick and easy"?
You say informing "increases the chances of " "getting out of there quickly". How can adding more steps possibly make the stop any easier or quicker? It has been my experience (as posted earlier) that informing makes the stop last much, much, longer AND in some cases MUCH more dangerous, for me, my family, and the officer!

You contradict yourself when you tell us we should inform without a good reason, and that if we don't have anything to hide, why hide the fact that we are carrying. Then you admit to carrying concealed yourself. What do you have to hide?
I've said a few times before, and agree with your statement about hiding (or in my case, not informing about) your gun until "a police officer is in the position that I feel he needs to know about it". Again contradicting yourself.

I'm not trying to change your way of dealing with these situations, just explaining why I've changed MY way. As you said, "do what works for you", I'm sure if and when you have issues like I and others have, you will change your mind.

 

[TheSpark]

Unless required by law I say do not inform unless you are about to be legally searched or there is a high probability the officer will see the gun(s).

Now I've never been in this situation yet to have to make a decision on to inform or not but from reading about other people informing and then having the officers ask for the gun in some cases that is enough for me to never inform. If there is even the slightest chance that the officer is going to endanger my life, his life, and the lives of all those around us by needlessly asking for my weapon then that is enough for me to try to avoid that possibility and never inform.

Also, if an officer did take my gun and returned it unloaded and gave me that crap others have mentioned about not loading it until they are out of sight ... bull crap. Once I'm no longer "detained" for the traffic stop that weapon is going to be reloaded. In most cases that is going to be while the officer is walking back to his vehicle after (hopefully) saying something like "have a nice day". They have no right to even temporarily un-arm you after you are no longer detained. Honestly, I doubt they even have a right to un-arm you during a traffic stop detainment (unless it is for a criminal act).

 

[netsecurity]

Can we all agree on just these points below, and then work outward from there?

1) If you feel the officer might see your weapon for any reason, then it is probably best to inform rather than surprise them.
2) If they ask, you should inform them truthfully.
3) Notifying may lengthen your traffic stop.
4) It is not the law to notify in Indiana, so you should not feel obligated.
5) Behave in a way that you feel is most safe at all times.

Regarding that last point, you should do your homework to determine what is safe. Having my own (loaded) gun molested is a serious no-no for me, for example, but there are worse things that a cop could do...

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

I keep an uncle mikes holster in my glovebox for this exact scenario. If the officers asks if there is a weapon in the car I will inform said officer of the location off of my person. If not, I don't see a need to bring it up and will simply re-holster when the contact is concluded. This removes the stress of reaching for a wallet (which should be out already anyway) and the officer catching a glimpse of a holstered weapon.

 

[netsecurity]

I keep an uncle mikes holster in my glovebox for this exact scenario. If the officers asks if there is a weapon in the car I will inform said officer of the location off of my person. If not, I don't see a need to bring it up and will simply re-holster when the contact is concluded. This removes the stress of reaching for a wallet (which should be out already anyway) and the officer catching a glimpse of a holstered weapon.

I just leave mine in the holster normally, but I also have a Remora holster in the door that I can throw it in if needed. So Max adds a good poin: Keeping a spare holster in your car is a good idea.

 

[public servant]

So you're actually pulling a handgun out of a holster during a traffic stop?

Or am I missing something?

 

[MPH]

Yeah, because I have my lawyer in tow everywhere I go just in case I get pulled over by an overzealous and undertrained LEO. Let's have a closer look at that context, shall we?
So, we were talking about what happens after the fact at the PDHQ while filing a complaint, not in the field.

Thank you for playing.

Well then. In the immortal words of Emily Litella... "Never Mind"
I apologize for not getting the whole context.

 

[Redhorse]

Can we all agree on just these points below, and then work outward from there?

1) If you feel the officer might see your weapon for any reason, then it is probably best to inform rather than surprise them.
2) If they ask, you should inform them truthfully.
3) Notifying may lengthen your traffic stop.
4) It is not the law to notify in Indiana, so you should not feel obligated.
5) Behave in a way that you feel is most safe at all times.

Regarding that last point, you should do your homework to determine what is safe. Having my own (loaded) gun molested is a serious no-no for me, for example, but there are worse things that a cop could do...

This may be the best advice on this whole thread.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

So you're actually pulling a handgun out of a holster during a traffic stop?

Or am I missing something?

That's how I read it too... Worst idea yet IMO.

 

[public servant]

That's how I read it too... Worst idea yet IMO.

I was hoping I misunderstood.

 

[richardraw316]

When has someone shot a cop JUST because they didn't want a ticket? Wanted for something else, yes. But show me just ONE instance where a legally licensed to carry individual has EVER shot a cop for ANY reason, and I will give your idea some credence!
Also, if any one of our respected officers on this board tells us that writing speeding tickets is a "tough job", then I'll change my response to that.

So, you won't tell the cop about your knife ,but you want him to know about your gun right away. I agree, if I have to exit the car, or if they are going to see it, I will let them know in advance, but if not, there is absolutely NO reason to bring up anything that has nothing to do with the stop!
I haven't seen what you're talking about (statements of cops being "high strung and pushy"), but how does your "solution" "help the police relax"?
As to your comment,"everybody lets them know how bad the idea is, but offer none of their own", I and others have offered our ideas.
My thought is, if I'm pulled over for speeding or any other traffic infraction, I roll my window down enough to talk with the officer, keep my hands on the steering wheel, give him my license and registration if and when asked, wait for my ticket or warning, and get on my way as soon as possible.
How can the action of informing "make their job quick and easy"?
You say informing "increases the chances of " "getting out of there quickly". How can adding more steps possibly make the stop any easier or quicker? It has been my experience (as posted earlier) that informing makes the stop last much, much, longer AND in some cases MUCH more dangerous, for me, my family, and the officer!

You contradict yourself when you tell us we should inform without a good reason, and that if we don't have anything to hide, why hide the fact that we are carrying. Then you admit to carrying concealed yourself. What do you have to hide?
I've said a few times before, and agree with your statement about hiding (or in my case, not informing about) your gun until "a police officer is in the position that I feel he needs to know about it". Again contradicting yourself.

I'm not trying to change your way of dealing with these situations, just explaining why I've changed MY way. As you said, "do what works for you", I'm sure if and when you have issues like I and others have, you will change your mind.

i am thinking you are looking at my words to literal, and missing the point of what i am trying to say. cops have been shot over nothing. my statement is a police officer must be aware of his surrounding at all times. this is most true when performing a traffic stop. the officer does not know the person he has pulled over. you have cars whipping by behind the officer. you have someone who is usually in a bad mood for being pulled over. yes this is a stressful situation. i wouldnt want to do it.
as for the rest of the "you carried concealed, your contradicting yourself." part of this conversation. i am done with that. i have explained myself. you dont understand. i am not going to keep expaining it. either i am not expaining it correctly, or you just cant hear the words i am trying to express.
have a nice day.

 

[public servant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-twUCEfzrDk

 

[Bunnykid68]

i am thinking you are looking at my words to literal, and missing the point of what i am trying to say. cops have been shot over nothing. my statement is a police officer must be aware of his surrounding at all times. this is most true when performing a traffic stop. the officer does not know the person he has pulled over. you have cars whipping by behind the officer. you have someone who is usually in a bad mood for being pulled over. yes this is a stressful situation. i wouldnt want to do it.
as for the rest of the "you carried concealed, your contradicting yourself." part of this conversation. i am done with that. i have explained myself. you dont understand. i am not going to keep expaining it. either i am not expaining it correctly, or you just cant hear the words i am trying to express.
have a nice day.

And we do not know if the officer pulling us over is related to Officer Harless

Quit pulling people over for lights and **** just to check their damn papers, that is really what those stops are about. Papers please. has nothing to do with the headlight or tail light that was busted 10 minutes ago while driving down the highway, it is all about checking papers. Any cop will tell you if they pull you over for a light they want to see your damn papers

 

[ATM]

Can we all agree on just these points below, and then work outward from there?

No way.

1) If you feel the officer might see your weapon for any reason, then it is probably best to inform rather than surprise them.

I will still not inform even suspecting that my weapon will be seen at some point.

If a citizen simply carrying a gun surprises them, it is because they had assumed incorrectly a default unarmed status condition.

I assume everyone is carrying.

2) If they ask, you should inform them truthfully.

Nope. I'll respond with silence or maybe a question of my own like, "Why am I being detained?"

3) Notifying may lengthen your traffic stop.

Fairly indisputable.

4) It is not the law to notify in Indiana, so you should not feel obligated.

Agreed.

5) Behave in a way that you feel is most safe at all times.

OK as a general rule of thumb, but I am willing to sacrifice some amount of personal security in the defense of essential Liberty.

 

[jsharmon7]

I never really thought much about this topic. I guess I thought to myself, "Self: don't do stupid crap to draw the attention of the police, like excessively speeding or running red lights or other such nonsense." It has worked out very well so far.

If I do get stopped for something one of these days, I plan to distract the officer from the gun issue with various insults about his/her heritage, mother, academic deficiencies, physical attributes, and the myriad other more important things he/she should be doing with my tax dollars.

 

[public servant]

If I do get stopped for something one of these days, I plan to distract the officer from the gun issue with various insults about his/her heritage, mother, academic deficiencies, physical attributes, and the myriad other more important things he/she should be doing with my tax dollars.

That was you I stopped????

 

[jsharmon7]

That was you I stopped????

Well...DID you go catch any murderers or rapists as I suggested?

 

[public servant]

Well...DID you go catch any murderers or rapists as I suggested?

No...but I did join Jenny Craig.

That hurt you know.