incident today - input needed

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • draben

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 27, 2009
    15
    1
    I was in my apartment around noon today. I heard screaming and looked out the window. In the parking lot was a woman lying on her back. A man straddled her while beating her face with his fists. The victim struggled while another woman stood nearby screaming for help. I reacted by grabbing the Kahr PM40 and phone as I ran out the door. I dialed 911 while running down the stairs. I put the Kahr in my front pocket.

    While making my way outside and waiting for the 911 operator, I was thinking to myself: what am I going to do with the gun? I'm not a big guy, and I'm not a fighter. The other guy looked big. Chances are the best I could do was get in the way while the cops were en route. Maybe the gun could intimidate the man into stopping the beating? But in the back of my mind was the thought that I really hope the gun doesn't come into play. I didn't want to take it out, and I really didn't want to use it. Even farther in the back of my mind was a thought that from what I saw, the situation did not warrant taking the gun out, so just stay cool.

    By the time I got outside and around the building where I could see the location of the beating, I had the emergency operator online, and the man was gone. The two women were still there. They said the man ran away; probably had a car parked somewhere. The victim looked rough and bloody. But she got up, and told me she didn't want an ambulance. She wanted to be left alone. By the time the cops arrived, all was quiet. I don't know if she pressed charges, but I got the impression she would not. My guess is they had a history, and this wasn't the first time.

    In hindsight... maybe I overreacted a bit? I've never been faced with a situation where I thought I might have to use a gun. It was chilling. I haven't been around violence much. In hope of making this a learning experience, please share your thoughts. What would you have done? What could or should I have done differently? More importantly, what could I have done if the man were still beating the woman when I arrived? What would you have done?

    On a side note, I need to move out of this neighborhood. It's gone to hell.

    Thanks for your input folks - much appreciated. :)
     

    in_betts

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 16, 2009
    262
    16
    North of FW
    Well it seems as though you did very well with all of it. Had the beating been still going when you arrived, I imagine if it were me I would try to pull the guy off her, then if he started to wail the crap out of me it would be time to escalate. But really none of us know for sure what we will do until it happens. Of that much I am certain.

    I certainly don't think you over-reacted and I would not have left the house without my gun either.

    Just my $.02
     

    JustGone

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 19, 2009
    360
    16
    In the PRK now =(
    Would have ran out the same...from just seeing him on her and the women screaming you don't know if they know him or not. You don't know if he is going to rape her, kidnap her, kill her. You did good by going out there but next time be ready to draw just in case..hesitation is not a good thing in a confrontation.

    It's sad that so many people won't press charges and get these bad people put away for what ever they did.
     

    1032JBT

    LEO and PROUD of it.......even if others aren't
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 24, 2009
    1,641
    36
    Noblesville
    No, you did not do the wrong thing. You called for help and went out try and intervene to stop the beating which thankfully was over by the time you got there. As far as the gun being in play........think about this for a second.

    Is a female (or anyone for that matter) lying on their back on concrete being pummeled in the head not a serious bodily injury or lethal force encounter? I'm not saying just walk up and pop the dude, but i think my point is clear. Would it be an easy choice.......no not at all, but one you should be thinking about if you are going to carry or head out the door with the weapon.


    So FWIW........I think you made the right choice and kudo's (and rep) to you for doing the right thing.......so many people in this world don't anymore.

    :patriot:
     

    SMiller

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Jan 15, 2009
    3,813
    48
    Hamilton Co.
    I wouldn't have thought about anything on my way out, just full concentration on getting to her, strait to gun point while screaming at him to get off of her and onto the ground. What he was doing was a force-able felony and would warrant taking him to gun point, what you did was the right thing. He could have bashed her brains out right there in the middle of the parking lot, have a beer and be glad it all worked out and that you did the right thing! Good for you! Glad you called the cops on your way, keeps you in the right and covers your a$$, you would have needed those guys and fast had you got there in time!
     

    Glock17 Man

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Oct 22, 2009
    63
    6
    N. Manchester
    You did good it's beter to have your gun and not need it than not have it and need it.

    PS.You shouldn't move out more good folks like you should to move in that's all.
     

    MontereyC6

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Mar 16, 2008
    2,646
    15
    Greenwood
    No, you did not do the wrong thing. You called for help and went out try and intervene to stop the beating which thankfully was over by the time you got there. As far as the gun being in play........think about this for a second.

    Is a female (or anyone for that matter) lying on their back on concrete being pummeled in the head not a serious bodily injury or lethal force encounter? I'm not saying just walk up and pop the dude, but i think my point is clear. Would it be an easy choice.......no not at all, but one you should be thinking about if you are going to carry or head out the door with the weapon.


    So FWIW........I think you made the right choice and kudo's (and rep) to you for doing the right thing.......so many people in this world don't anymore.

    :patriot:

    What he said. If I were in the same exact situation, I'm almost certain my firearm would have been in hand as I exited the door. As you described it, he very easily could have beat the life out of her.
     

    wtfd661

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Dec 27, 2008
    6,473
    63
    North East Indiana
    No, you did not do the wrong thing. You called for help and went out try and intervene to stop the beating which thankfully was over by the time you got there. As far as the gun being in play........think about this for a second.

    Is a female (or anyone for that matter) lying on their back on concrete being pummeled in the head not a serious bodily injury or lethal force encounter? I'm not saying just walk up and pop the dude, but i think my point is clear. Would it be an easy choice.......no not at all, but one you should be thinking about if you are going to carry or head out the door with the weapon.


    So FWIW........I think you made the right choice and kudo's (and rep) to you for doing the right thing.......so many people in this world don't anymore.

    :patriot:

    +1 to this, exactly what I was going to say. Good Job !!!!!
     

    Hoosier8

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    29   0   1
    Jul 3, 2008
    5,032
    113
    Indianapolis
    You called 911, went to help, and were prepared. Don't sweat it.

    I heard a woman in my neighborhood yelling and I went to investigate and this guy was screaming at her and acting pretty bad. I asked if everything was OK and he came at me. He backed me up and had been drinking. I just backed up and he went away, got in his truck, and peeled out. I was not armed. I make the mistake of trying to help, and I will probably never do anything different.

    Getting in domestic disputes can be dangerous, so 911 was the best choice but it is good to be prepared. The pistol would be the last resort.
     

    DRob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Aug 2, 2008
    5,905
    83
    Southside of Indy
    You did good

    Calling 911 was certainly the thing to do, as a minimum. I totally agree with in_betts. None of us can say with certainty what we would do although many will state what they THINK they would do. It seems like you've given the situation a lot of thought, after the fact. That's a good thing but I would like to toss this in. You should never draw a gun for the purpose of intimidating someone! If that turns out to be a positive side affect, OK. However, if you draw the gun, you'd better be ready to shoot. And...........if you don't have reason to kill a person, you don't have reason to shoot them!

    Oh yeah! If that stuff is happening often in your neighborhood.......Move.
     

    anewrnn

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Sep 22, 2008
    195
    16
    Crown Point
    Good JOB

    Thats great you gave a damn. I sure you were hoping not to have to shoot someone but you dont know if the guy had any weapons on him etc.. He obviously wasnt wrapped to tight anyway to be beating up a woman. When some people get enraged they dont know right from wrong. You should be proud of yourself!!!! The above member is right, more people like you need to move into your hood.
     

    indianajoe

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 24, 2009
    809
    18
    Fishers
    No, you did not do the wrong thing. You called for help and went out try and intervene to stop the beating which thankfully was over by the time you got there.

    I concur with the brother in blue. Reps for standing up and moving toward the incident. Hope the woman appreciated the personal risk you took on behalf of a stranger (ie, her). Welcome to INGO.
     

    jblomenberg16

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    67   0   0
    Mar 13, 2008
    9,920
    63
    Southern Indiana
    You did what I would have done. In basic first aid / CPR, you are taught to Check-Call-Care for a person. Check the situation for other hazards, Call 911, Care for the individual. That mantra can apply into situations like you described as well.

    A couple things to think about in rehashing the situation.

    1) What if it played out another way. You see the situation at hand, and decide to act, but leave your gun in the house. You get to teh point of the beating, and the guy sees you, steps off the woman, and has a gun of his own and points it at you. Now what?

    2) What if when you got down to the scene, the man responded to your command to stop beating the woman, but then charged you (you are armed this time). Now what?



    I'm glad all ended well (sounds like while the woman was beaten up pretty good, she did walk away) and you didn't have to use force. In any situation like this, it is always good to look back and reflect to help prepare you for the next time.
     

    hookedonjeep

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Mar 11, 2009
    833
    18
    With the other Sheepdogs
    Sounds like you did ok...... but here is something to consider...... IF you witness a situation that screams at your every fiber that you NEED to intervene- and grab your gun to do so - you MUST be prepared to act without an ounce of hesitation. I agree with most of the other posters in that he could just as easily have bashed her brains out right there in the parking lot - and as such you had every right to choose to assist - with force if necessary. And if the beating were still taking place when you rounded the corner - you would have to choose between trying to pull him off (not a prime choice, as you stated he was much larger than you - and it would put you at a huge tactical disadvantage should it escalate into a fight for your life, and you need to draw); or taking cover, drawing, and preparing to fire while shouting commands. From that, you might be able to direct his attention away from the victim - buying her some time - and directing that attention at your position. This way, he has to choose to either continue beating the victim (he gets shot); advance on you (he gets shot); or run away (maybe the cops won't get him......).

    All in all, you did good. Just remember - "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
     

    PatMcGroyne

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 3, 2009
    465
    16
    Honey Creek
    . . . .it's usually not a good idea to break into a fist-fight -- even a male-on-female one-sided one -- with a firearm. I'd say you got away with experience, your voice for posterity on a 911-tape, and serious non-involvement. May your luck hold out until you move. "...pray that better folks move in..." Good karma to YOU my friend!!!! Plus, how does one prove that "...he MIGHT HAVE bashed her brains out..."? What right do I have to shoot / kill an unarmed person becauese I THINK a beating MIGHT terminate a life? Would I be the one deciding whether any one life is more valuable than another? With a gun in-hand one must act with E V E R Y ounce of consideration....or hesitation, as calld for. Pat
     

    bigiron

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Sep 25, 2009
    567
    16
    NWI hiding in the bushes
    A+.............great job, be proud of yourself for being a good person and having a heart of compassion for the helpless! did the LEO approach you once they arrived on scene and if so, did they ask about your firearm? just curious. thanks and sleep well knowing you did your best today!
     

    Denny347

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    13,559
    149
    Napganistan
    Yup, could have easily been a deadly force incident. I missed a guy by minutes who had just beat his girlfriend to death in the street. I found her but the boyfriend had run off, he kicked her until she died. Weaponless assaults can easily turn deadly. It takes less effort than you think. You did fine.
     
    Top Bottom