Image we project as a gun community...

[DarkRose]

I can't stand it. Here's the fixed version:

"I looked them up… no thanks. They're the reason anti-gun people view us the way they do—mostly rednecks and hillbillies. Sorry you're associated with them. Good luck with that."

Seriously, how can a person make statements of that nature in writing consistent with that used by those who fit the very stereotype she claims to detest? She's ridiculous. It'd be as if a publisher wrote a paper decrying the overuse of the Comic Sans font and released it printed in Comic Sans!

@OP: I'm curious. Do you think you'll show her this thread? I'm mixed on whether that would be a good idea.

Meh, I don't see the point, I doubt her mind will change. She had the nerve to accuse me of "trolling" for new members, lol.
I said "heck, if you were single I'd have been trolling for a new girlfriend, but that option is OUT either way!"

Better to appear ignorant than to open your mouth and prove it. She opened her mouth...

 

[SmileDocHill]

This thread strikes very close to me so I apologize for the thesis paper but here it goes.


The sole connection of gun ownership is a thin thread of commonality. in other words all walks of life have a reason to be gun owners. It isn't inherent that gun owners have the same education level, or even the same motivation that makes them a gun owner. And since this social forum is intended to benefit the broad spectrum of "gun owners", in an ideal world, you would expect to see people from all walks of life here.

I have met through this board a couple highly educated chemists, scientists, MANY other health care professionals (DDS's, MD's, and a Chiropractor) as well as countless other white and grey color, highly educated individuals. I have in my life (long before INGO) failed to see Education or any form of social or cultural classifications playing as important a role as ones character, maturity, and wisdom in defining ones caliber. (all of which have little to do with education)

In my opinion the essence of this thread comes down to what your factors are when considering if somebody is a high caliber person or not. Because, lets face it, if she thought she would be in the presence of (what she considered to be) high caliber people she would not likely have a problem being associated with us. I base ones caliber on integrity, maturity, character, and whether they floss or not (seeing if you are still reading) among other things.

Here are two big concepts at play with a lot of people I know that your friend reminds me of:

1 (how you look at people)
There are a lot of people that base others caliber soleley on someones occupation, appearance, education and other aspects that are simple to discern. It is like they can't get over the grammar and spelling errors to see a profound concept being communicated, they can't see the forest for the trees, or the wise, caring, stand up guy that humanity should be PROUD to have in its presence because there is motor oil on his blue color and he doesn't look at all like the manager they were trained to hold on high.
This simple mindedness greatly reduces their exposure to really great people, and in that regard I'm sorry for them.

2 (being a leader even if it is only to lead your own decisions)
The other thing is that they usually obtained this mentality because it is the way they were taught either directly by family, peers or the education system or indirectly by many aspects of society. Folks that put a lot of importance on how their associations make them look to others rather than stepping up and deciding for themselves if it is correct/right/proper to have those associations are by definition not leaders. (or they are just picking their battles in life and this doesn't make the list)

This (leadership) topic was discussed between myself and another professional I met on the boards not long ago. We discussed how when we first came to this community prior to knowing each other we had the same thoughts she had, how is this going to look being associated with a gun site. We both used a method called "thinking for ourselves" and deduced basically the first 4 sentences of this post. All professions have some form of the analogy that says when something big happens or needs to happen a few stand there in disbelief and do nothing until hopefully someone comes to help them, most stand there and ask for direction as to how to help, and a few step up and figure out the situation for what it is and lead them out of the problem. My new friend and I figured out the situation (first 4 sentences), and felt as gun owners we should bring whatever it is we represent to the INGO/gun community regardless of whoever is already there. We dove into a great community and have enjoyed the fruits of our decision every since.

Many of us have come across people like this so we need to talk about it so we can wrestle with the issues ahead of time and have non confrontational, intelligent, encouraging thoughts to bring to them without giving a 10 page dissertation like this post. She and others are of the type that they are either standing in disbelief of the bad stuff they saw and need help, or they are awaiting further instruction in the form of a different perspective so they can help.

Since she alluded to INGO not being beneficial to the cause I assume she understands some basic concepts of leadership. To be a leader in this situation I hope she sees that we also need people like her on INGO to help us make this social forum the "ideal world" I alluded to earlier and fill in the holes she sees in our "all walks of life" forum. Not because of an internal battle between classes within INGO but because gun owners in fact are present in all walks of life.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I think the Redneck / Hillbilly monicker probably describes most Hoosiers, not just INGOers.

I think what may add to the stereotype is that typically when we're out at the range, we're not dressed to impress anyone...but rather to be comfortable. Hence, range pics probably show a little more of our less than desirable features, like our excessive sweating, our love handles, and maybe even a 2 or 3 day beard from not shaving.


I've wondered the same thing in general when I've been at the range (with and without INGOers) and have come to the conclusion that there isn't anything wrong, different, or unusual about gun owners, and that we just really don't care too much for what we look like at the range. Ok, so maybe a few of us tend to go a little overboard on the "Tacticool" look occasionally.


It may help your friend to go to the Barth Co. fair this week and check out what will be a good cross section of Indiana, ranging from the more prim and propper, to the stereotypical redneck. At that point your friend will probably find that INGO is a pretty good sampling of that larger population.

I've only met a small # of the site's members in person, but of those I have met, I think it is safe to say that we truly come from all walks of life.

I agree with what you said. I dress comfortable, which means a t-shirt, shorts, and shoes. If people want to judge me, and call me a hill billy, I'm fine with that. Fact is, when social collapse happens. I'll survive while they starve.

 

[shooter1054]

Next time I go to the range, I won't go unless there is a vallet. Just to satisfy the uppercrust. No tie, no dinner jacket, no shooting.

 

[Andy219]

I wore a suit to the range once!

 

[schafe]

If anyone acuses me of being a redneck or hillbilly....I thank them for the compliment.
The majority of folks I admire and try to emulate would probably fall into those categories.
I wear those labels as a badge of honor, for it puts me in the company of some of the most honorable folks I've ever met, period.

 

[ralphb72]

Well, I have been here for a long time and I find the people in this group to be very knowledgeable about guns in general, and about the laws of Indiana. There are a few people on my ignore list, but for the most part, I feel at home with you all. I don't post very often, but enough so that you may recognize my user name, and I think of you all as friends.

 

[confused89]

It may help your friend to go to the Barth Co. fair this week and check out what will be a good cross section of Indiana, ranging from the more prim and propper, to the stereotypical redneck. At that point your friend will probably find that INGO is a pretty good sampling of that larger population.

Just got back from it there. Saw guys wearing stuff they shouldn't. People thinking that a half torn shirt is acceptable as clothes to wear in public. Watched the tractor pull for close to 3 hours. To bad the AC didn't win. Had a group of teenagers sit next to me and every other word out of their mouth was stuff you don't want your 3 year old to hear. I like going to these type of events but the sometimes it does make me wonder about what these kids are going to make of thier lives.

Where do they keep all of the 4-H projects at the fair grounds? I have been there 3 years now and have yet to find them.

 

[T-DOGG]

I personally could care less whether someone on this site is a Hillbilly, Redneck, Upper Class, Lower Class, Middle Class. I'm here to make friends, discuss firearms, teach/learn different things and you can do that with anyone from anywhere. As I have gotten older and more mature I try not to form an opinion about people until I get to know them. There is an old saying about not judging a book by its cover, people should remember that more often. Some of my very good friends in life have been people I judged incorrectly at first until I was around them more and more. It's called being a civilized adult, maybe she should try it sometime.

 

[windellmc]

After reading that other example of her posting/critical reasoning skills I think she might be a closet liberal. Basically she seems to think socialism is ok as long as we only use the money/benefits for US citizens. I see that line of thinking as severely at odds with the typical gun owner who spends time on a gun forum. Is she a Rockefeller Republican?

 

[thebishopp]

Not sure where else to put this, but I thought I should post it for all to see, so if it needs moved to somewhere more appropriate, feel free (Political? Site Suggestions? unsure...) Cross post if neccessary...

I recently remarked to an online acquaintance that is VERY pro-gun, that she should check out this site and community, because it was a good place for info with a lot of good people and while no one agrees 100% on everything, there's a good vibe here, and a place I'm glad to be a part of.

Here's the reply I received from her:

"I looked them up ..no thanks ..their the reason anti-gun people view us the way they do ..mostly red necks and hill billys ..sorry your associated with them .good luck with that. "

She didn't cite any specific examples, but maybe we should all stop and think about how we project ourselves to the public in general. Especially considering this came from someone who claims to be on "our" side.

This is ridiculous. I am from Hawaii and if anyone would view "midwesterners" as hill billies and rednecks, it would be me. Granted I have been in this area (KY first then Indiana) since 1992 but personally I do not get that vibe from this site at all (and boy I have met a few I may call, well heck they refer to themselves as such, "hill billies and rednecks in real life - especially out there in "eastern KY).

In fact what you say she said is really quite offensive and, imo, "classist" (like a racist but a prejudice towards a perceived social or economical class instead of one based on color).

 

[thompal]

I wore a suit to the range once!

Hey, me too!!! I was IT tech support at Cummins at the time, and ran up to Atterbury on my lunch hour to try out an AK47 that I had just bought.

 

[thompal]

I personally could care less whether someone on this site is a Hillbilly, Redneck, Upper Class, Lower Class, Middle Class. I'm here to make friends, discuss firearms, teach/learn different things and you can do that with anyone from anywhere. As I have gotten older and more mature I try not to form an opinion about people until I get to know them. There is an old saying about not judging a book by its cover, people should remember that more often. Some of my very good friends in life have been people I judged incorrectly at first until I was around them more and more. It's called being a civilized adult, maybe she should try it sometime.

Ha!! How true. After reading her response, only one word came to mind: "Snob."


BTW - I saw a bumper sticker that had your tag line on a car in the parking lot at Meijer the other day!

 

[thebishopp]

After reading that other example of her posting/critical reasoning skills I think she might be a closet liberal. Basically she seems to think socialism is ok as long as we only use the money/benefits for US citizens. I see that line of thinking as severely at odds with the typical gun owner who spends time on a gun forum. Is she a Rockefeller Republican?

I'm kinda leaning this way myself. She reminds me of those "artys" people, who tend to be rather snobbish. Speak out against the government while sipping their designer coffee down at the coffee shop. You find them in all walks, sometimes they are the ones shopping at the high end designer stores, and sometimes they are the one's that shop at the "vintage" or "goodwill" stores because it is "hip" or "cool" (they don't actually do it to save money or because they have to like some people, they do it for the "image").

Basically complainers who do nothing really but complain because it is the "hip" thing to do, you know, very "socially conscious" appearing. Very image conscience people.

Now she may be nothing like that, but it sure does seem that way (from both the things the OP posted that she said).

 

[thebishopp]

Maybe instead of being so offended maybe we should be asking what it was that turned her off. The fact that so many of you are so defensive about this speaks volumes. You can't allow someone to express an opinion without getting nasty. I am sure I will even get flamed for this thought, even though it seems rather reasonable. The fact that her mindset is one of pro-gun is already in line with much of our thinking.

You have a point. Though it seem pretty clear her statements are of rather ignorant and prejudicial nature.

She could have said many other things, but instead she chose to use some terms in a very negative and insulting manner. I highly doubt she used them positively or as a mere "descriptors". That in and of itself shoes a certain immaturity in her.

Had she been a bit more "mature" she would probably have said something like:

You know, I looked at that site, and while I believe myself to be very "pro-gun", I feel that some of the ideas expressed there are the very reason "anti-gunners" have a prejudice towards us.

(-edit- I personally think that is hogwash of course - just showing an example of what a less ignorant statement would sound like).

Her need to attack a class of people by calling them "rednecks and hillbillies" (of which I am neither - and I must say I have met a few who fall into this classification and they were just like anyone else. Some are fine people and some are jerks like the rest of us - I don' think any class, race, social or otherwise has a monopoly on idiots) speaks volumes about her character.

 

[T-DOGG]

Ha!! How true. After reading her response, only one word came to mind: "Snob."


BTW - I saw a bumper sticker that had your tag line on a car in the parking lot at Meijer the other day!

I saw the line on a shirt at a store somewhere a long time ago. It was the first thing that came to mind when I joined the forum and was setting up my account. Scary thing is I do have a very pretty almost 2 yr old daughter. Guns will be getting cleaned plenty of times at the dinner table when she gets old enough to be dating (around 30 I'm hoping!).

 

[Yukon227]

I'm as pro-gun as anyone. This site is a great place for us to all chat, converse and share ideas and information with each other. If we are all rednecks and hillbillies then I'm proud to be one. That being said, I wonder if this chick has any other bias?
If she thinks this is hillbilly she should check out some of the hunting forums, or maybe she should just stick to Oprah.

 

[Yukon227]

I saw the line on a shirt at a store somewhere a long time ago. It was the first thing that came to mind when I joined the forum and was setting up my account. Scary thing is I do have a very pretty almost 2 yr old daughter. Guns will be getting cleaned plenty of times at the dinner table when she gets old enough to be dating (around 30 I'm hoping!).

I have one that age and another who is almost 4, I'm gonna be cleaning guns when the boys come, and maybe I'll castrate pigs too



Now I'm a redneck!!!

 

[Jack Burton]

Not sure where else to put this, but I thought I should post it for all to see, so if it needs moved to somewhere more appropriate, feel free (Political? Site Suggestions? unsure...) Cross post if neccessary...

I recently remarked to an online acquaintance that is VERY pro-gun, that she should check out this site and community, because it was a good place for info with a lot of good people and while no one agrees 100% on everything, there's a good vibe here, and a place I'm glad to be a part of.

Here's the reply I received from her:

"I looked them up ..no thanks ..their the reason anti-gun people view us the way they do ..mostly red necks and hill billys ..sorry your associated with them .good luck with that. "

She didn't cite any specific examples, but maybe we should all stop and think about how we project ourselves to the public in general. Especially considering this came from someone who claims to be on "our" side.

1) no group as large as INGO is going to be homogeneous, like-minded people about everything.

2) Based upon her remarks I would fairly say your 'net friend has all the earmarks of a bigot. They come in all sizes, shapes, colors and beliefs.

3) The "anti's" can always find something to seize upon to make gun owners look bad... even an admission from someone that they own three guns (why, who needs an arsenal?"

 

[superjoe76]

Ironic! I have had the exact opposite thoughts about this site. I have completely enjoyed the threads and discussions on this site. Very well laid out site and very good information.