If you could only use one smokeless powder what would it be?

[NomadS]

Hypothetical situation: [STRIKE]The government decided to limit smokeless powder that was available to the consumer and you are on the committee that decided which ONE powder was going to be approved for Rifle ammunition reloading and which ONE powder for Pistol ammunition reloading[/STRIKE].

EDIT: Based on a response down page.. I should probably rephrase the original question to which powder would be the best compromise for reloading both 9mm and .45 and which powder would be the best compromise for both .223 and .308

and maybe throw in 12 gauge and 20 gauge shotguns as well.
​

Which of the powders that currently exist would you vote for and why?

 

[downzero]

Varget for rifle and Power Pistol for pistol.

The former works great in .223 and .308, especially with heavier bullets. The latter is what I would want to have available for self-defense ammo, although it would not be preferable for target ammo, at least it has the upper performance range to where it'd be useful from 9mm on up to .357 magnum if necessary.

I should also point out that this is a somewhat stupid question, since the entire point of having many powders available is that the extreme compromises your question poses are not necessary nor desirable.

 

[Broom_jm]

I'd vote for a new government, or use the powder already available to "inform" the one that made such a dumb law, that I'm not very fond of their decision.

There is no one rifle powder or pistol powder that will cover the range of rifles and pistols folks reload. Even the most versatile powders only cover so much ground. In short: I reject the premise as untenable.

 

[sloughfoot]

I'd vote for a new government, or use the powder already available to "inform" the one that made such a dumb law, that I'm not very fond of their decision.

There is no one rifle powder or pistol powder that will cover the range of rifles and pistols folks reload. Even the most versatile powders only cover so much ground. In short: I reject the premise as untenable.

Agree. All day Every day. I hate these hypothetical questions anyway.

 

[NomadS]

No one is forcing anyone to respond to the question. If someone thinks it's a stupid question because there are so many options available, then please, just ignore the thread.

I think forced choices can sometimes reveal important aspects that might not be addressed otherwise. Hoping that will happen here.

 

[sloughfoot]

I don't think it is a stupid question.

I do think it is a stupid premise behind the question,to assume that somehow government assumed the power to tell a privately owned comany that they must shutdown all production except one officially sanctioned powder. And that we as a free people accepts that amount of government power.

Now if the question was related to a company deciding to shut down a production line and what we should do to adapt to that decision, I would be right there with alternatives.

This government does not have that power over private enterprise at this time. And if that time ever comes.....I really don't want to think about it. I want my grandchildren to survive.

 

[NomadS]

Varget for rifle and Power Pistol for pistol.

The former works great in .223 and .308, especially with heavier bullets. The latter is what I would want to have available for self-defense ammo, although it would not be preferable for target ammo, at least it has the upper performance range to where it'd be useful from 9mm on up to .357 magnum if necessary.

I should also point out that this is a somewhat stupid question, since the entire point of having many powders available is that the extreme compromises your question poses are not necessary nor desirable.

So what are the drawbacks of varget and power pistol? Are the drawbacks only something that would a concern to someone that hand loads to compete? Would they be a significant detriment to a recreational shooter or the once a year hunter? How about to a regular infantry soldier as opposed to a long range sniper?

 

[Broom_jm]

With all due respect, asking the above question(s) illustrates a lack of understanding for the inter-related nature of case capacity and burn rate. Can you use Varget in 300 Weatherby loads or 22 Hornet loads? Maybe...and definitely not! Can you use Power Pistol in 38 Special and 460S&W loads? Maybe...but it's a poor choice for both.

You can learn things from a thread like this, including identifying versatile powders that will work well with a variety of popular cartridges. However, the most important lesson you SHOULD learn from this is that we are blessed with a wide variety of cartridges we can load and shoot...and that absolutely REQUIRES a wide variety of powders, if we are to reload them ourselves.

Threads like this stem from folks who own a 9mm, 45ACP, 223 and 308. Those rounds are where their cartridge world begins and ends. For them, Varget and Power Pistol might be all the powder choices they'll ever need. Personally, I would choose H4895 over Varget, for its versatility with cast bullet rifle loads, but that is immaterial. The only way this ridiculous premise has any value whatsoever is if the person replying is willing to choose from a relative handful of cartridges that they will reload.

This is America; I have guns in many different and disparate chamberings; I have no interest in limiting my choice of powders. Instead of trying to narrow your focus to powders that will work with what you shoot...consider broadening your perspective to include all of the unique and interesting rounds out there, along with the special powders that make them go!

 

[6mm Shoot]

IMR 4895 works great in all my rifles. 110 Works great in my 44. I see no way to use one powder for every thing. If this would happen we would be in big trouble.

 

[bstewrat3]

I think what some of you are missing here is the fact that if there ever was a government that required that only two powders be available to the populace they probably do not care that you can not use them in your 25acp or 577 T-Rex. It is a pretty broad hypothetical, but I do see value in this thread to get peoples opinions of the most versatile powders for their needs.

 

[Skip]

If such a law was enacted, the real reason behind it would be to limit the ammo that we could build.

Like what happens when the DNR comes out with cartridge regulations that there is no one cartridge for. What happened? Folks made up their own calibers.

In my opinion, such a limitation would cause certain calibers to fall by the wayside and we would focus on ones that we could get the maximum out of with the powders available.

Unique (AA#5, Universal) or in that burn rate for pistol and one of the Hodgdon Extreme powders in the H4895 burn rate. I spoke with Hodgdon Tech Support once and they said that H4895 can be downloaded to 40% with no problem. Seems like a win/win in this hypothetical situation.

Really thankful that at present, we don't have to really worry about such a thing!

 

[NomadS]

Threads like this stem from folks who own a 9mm, 45ACP, 223 and 308. Those rounds are where their cartridge world begins and ends. For them, Varget and Power Pistol might be all the powder choices they'll ever need. Personally, I would choose H4895 over Varget, for its versatility with cast bullet rifle loads, but that is immaterial. The only way this ridiculous premise has any value whatsoever is if the person replying is willing to choose from a relative handful of cartridges that they will reload.

Exactly. In such a situation those are probably the cartridges, ones with military applications, people will be most likely to want to reload. After all I don't think people are going to be too concerned with squeezing every bit of performance out of .455 Webley if the government begins to restrict access to supplies. So I should probably rephrase the original question to which powder would be the best compromise for 9mm and .45 and which powder would be the best compromise for .223 and .308

Also, why does the H4895 have versatility over Varget with regards to cast bullets?

 

[NomadS]

If such a law was enacted, the real reason behind it would be to limit the ammo that we could build.

In my opinion, such a limitation would cause certain calibers to fall by the wayside and we would focus on ones that we could get the maximum out of with the powders available.

exactly

Unique (AA#5, Universal) or in that burn rate for pistol and one of the Hodgdon Extreme powders in the H4895 burn rate. I spoke with Hodgdon Tech Support once and they said that H4895 can be downloaded to 40% with no problem. Seems like a win/win in this hypothetical situation.

Now we are getting somewhere.. Could you explain the downloaded to 40% and why that is important?

Really thankful that at present, we don't have to really worry about such a thing!

At present.

 

[Broom_jm]

Actually, I think Skip might have misspoke or misunderstood:

H4895 can be reduced to as little as 60% of any published load and still be perfectly safe. It has a fairly unique property, in that it is not position sensitive (meaning where the powder charge is in the case when it is fired) and as such, can be loaded down quite a bit, with safe, predictable results.

For example, I load a significantly reduced charge of H4895 under a 125gr Ballistic Tip, in a 30-'06 case. Instead of getting 3,000fps or more, I load it down to right around 2,500fps. This not only results in less recoil, but by slowing the speed of this bullet down, it's actually MORE effective on game...because it doesn't blow up on impact. It makes a great deer hunting option for my wife or daughter, when we are out of state. (Frankly, it would be great for Indiana, if the laws weren't so absurd.)

H4895 also makes for great cast bullet loads in a variety of larger rifle cartridges. Since you're portraying an EOTW scenario, where jacketed bullets may also be in limited supply, folks will have to cast their own from lead alloy. If it comes to that, H4895 would be a MUCH better choice to have stock-piled than Varget or even the IMR version of 4895, which does not have the same properties as H4895.

 

[Leo]

Without all the other factors already mentioned, Varget does a wide variety of rifles and TiteGroup does a wide variety of handguns. Do they work the best in every case? of course not, but they will make a projectile leave the barrel. I do thank God that I am a free man in America and can still have 8 or 10 different types of powder if that is what I want.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

If the government gets to the point of tampering with powder manufacture, they'll most likely just shut it down entirely, and we'll be back to pissing on our compost piles, crunching up charcoal, etc to feed our muzzleloaders.

 

[VinceU1]

OK, getting back to the question, for .45ACP/9MM I really like W231 and for a 5.56/.308 WC846. Neither powder is "ideal" for both of the stated cartridges, but both will work well in both.

 

[Iroquois]

The pupose of a hypothetical question is to create an unlikely premise a seek answers to a problem
not yet encountered...not to argue the likelihood of the hypothetical.
According to the loading tables, Aliant Unique has a wide range of pistol and gas check loads
for rifle. I think you can load shotgun too but I don't have that info here with me.