"I want to take firearms training classes, but they're so expensive!"

[Tamara]

One of My problems in attending training is I prefer TTP for Combat Driven Scenarios for Squad/Platoon and Larger Groups.

Cool. It's important to train for the scenarios you deem most likely to happen to you!

Unfortunately, I rarely take my whole platoon to the grocery store or down the Monon Trail and besides, I think there's a city ordinance against having my SAW gunner lay down a base of fire as I assault into the mugging, so I mostly just work on learning how to shoot a pistol fast and accurately from concealment, (and while moving, if necessary.)

 

[the1kidd03]

Cool. It's important to train for the scenarios you deem most likely to happen to you!

Unfortunately, I rarely take my whole platoon to the grocery store or down the Monon Trail and besides, I think there's a city ordinance against having my SAW gunner lay down a base of fire as I assault into the mugging, so I mostly just work on learning how to shoot a pistol fast and accurately from concealment, (and while moving, if necessary.)

If you're in a situation that requires using your sidearm, moving is nearly ALWAYS necessary, IMO. You know how well you can shoot (moving targets, accuracy, etc.) The chances of your aggressor having equivalent skill are unlikely, and even so movement makes it MUCH more difficult to overcome. Hence, movement is ALWAYS necessary.

 

[jmdavis984]

I can see pretty decent correlation between firearms training and motorcycle rider training. As a motorcycle rider myself, I see the training as invaluable. It make me abtter, more concientous rider. And there seem to be two camps in the new riders, those who want the training because they are afraid of riding without it, and those who don't take it because "they can figure it out on their own."

As a new member of the "lead slinging" community, I find myself in the latter group. I've done a lot of my own learning, through reading blogs, articles, and videos. Now I am focusing on my time behind the trigger, making sure to concentrate on follow-through, hold consistency, sight picture, trigger control, and general gun handling discipline. And I feel like I've made good progress toward becoming a better shooter. Am I to the point where I can no longer learn on my own? No way. When that time comes, and if I feel like I NEED to learn more in order to be a safe shooter, I will probably try to get in on a cheap local group class. Hell, even an INGO day at the range would probably teach me a thing or two.

And that brings me to another thought. The internet has made SO much information available to members of any community. Whether it is knitting, home repair, shooting, motorcycles, hiking, car repair, you name it, there is a community for it. The amount of information available to the casual observer is astounding. I wouldn't say that it negates the need for formal training, but a studious person can gain LOTS of guidance and direction from the community without needing to spend $500 for a "certified instructor" to say the same things they've read over and over again on the web.

 

[jeremy]

Cool. It's important to train for the scenarios you deem most likely to happen to you!

Unfortunately, I rarely take my whole platoon to the grocery store or down the Monon Trail and besides, I think there's a city ordinance against having my SAW gunner lay down a base of fire as I assault into the mugging, so I mostly just work on learning how to shoot a pistol fast and accurately from concealment, (and while moving, if necessary.)

LOL!

So far in my adult life over half of it has been spent in situations that I have a Squad or Platoon with me...

I am working on changing that problem in my life as well...

 

[esrice]

I wouldn't say that it negates the need for formal training, but a studious person can gain LOTS of guidance and direction from the community without needing to spend $500 for a "certified instructor" to say the same things they've read over and over again on the web.

While I do agree with this on a surface level, as a person does indeed have much more information readily available than in years past, formal training goes way beyond this type of "one-way" learning into the world of "two-way" learning.

Yes, a video can give you instruction on trigger control. But it can't watch you manipulate the trigger and adjust your mistakes on the fly.

Often times this is a case of "you don't know what you don't know". Folks who have attended such classes often have this "lightbulb moment" when they clearly see its inherent value.

Yes, the information is out there, but its no substitute for training.

 

[Tamara]

I wouldn't say that it negates the need for formal training, but a studious person can gain LOTS of guidance and direction from the community without needing to spend $500 for a "certified instructor" to say the same things they've read over and over again on the web.

I consider myself a pretty studious person. I've owned guns and engaged in casual shooting for many years before starting to work in the gun industry almost twenty years ago. At that time, I took a couple of basic NRA-type courses and they definitely helped. I acquired a shelf full of books by Cooper, Ayoob, Suarez, Plaxco, Taylor... as well as videos and DVDs.

I got a fair amount of trigger time at work, and I was not a bad shot or an unsafe gun handler. Given a reasonable amount of time, I was capable of hitting the bull in slow-fire.

Fast forward to 2008. I had the opportunity to take a three-day pistol course with Todd Jarrett at Blackwater.

Oh. My. God. How much I didn't know...

I've taken over a hundred hours more since then with more scheduled for this year. When I think of all the time and money I wasted, all the ammo I fruitlessly sprayed into the berm, all because I spent money on gear instead of school...

Those books and videos are good and informative and worthwhile, and the internet can be, too, but none of them yet have the ability to say "No, no, not like that. Like this."


EDITED TO ADD:

Often times this is a case of "you don't know what you don't know". Folks who have attended such classes often have this "lightbulb moment" when they clearly see its inherent value.

Wow, it's like I was reading your mind.

 

[Indy574]

Ok, I will take a class no matter how uncoordinated I may look or how depleted it will make my "play money".

 

[Mgderf]

While I do agree with this on a surface level, as a person does indeed have much more information readily available than in years past, formal training goes way beyond this type of "one-way" learning into the world of "two-way" learning.

Yes, a video can give you instruction on trigger control. But it can't watch you manipulate the trigger and adjust your mistakes on the fly.

Often times this is a case of "you don't know what you don't know". Folks who have attended such classes often have this "lightbulb moment" when they clearly see its inherent value.

Yes, the information is out there, but its no substitute for training.

This exactly.^ I volunteer to teach the First-Shots program at my local range. It's for beginners, but we get the occassional "shooter" that drags in the wife or girlfriend.

It's funny, but the "beginners" seem to do better on average than the "shooters" do!

I see those "lightbulb" moments almost every class. Part of what makes it all worth the time and effort.

 

[Tamara]

Ok, I will take a class no matter how uncoordinated I may look...

Do like I do: As long as I'm not the suckiest person in the class at the end of the day, I'm happy. Second worst? That's fine.

 

[esrice]

Ok, I will take a class no matter how uncoordinated I may look or how depleted it will make my "play money".

Which class you gonna take first? Any ideas?

 

[the1kidd03]

Ok, I will take a class no matter how uncoordinated I may look or how depleted it will make my "play money".

Here is probably a good starting point which won't kill your wallet
Intermediate Pistol 101 May 12, 2012 - Page 3 - INGunOwners

 

[bwframe]

Ok, I will take a class no matter how uncoordinated I may look...

Do like I do: As long as I'm not the suckiest person in the class at the end of the day, I'm happy. Second worst? That's fine.

Maybe I'm just an oddball, but I rarely have a clue as to where I am as compared to most others in the class. Sure, I'll see standouts on each end of the spectrum, but my focus is on myself, not so much on others.

 

[Tamara]

Maybe I'm just an oddball, but I rarely have a clue as to where I am as compared to most others in the class. Sure, I'll see standouts on each end of the spectrum, but my focus is on myself, not so much on others.

Some instructors, it can be hard to tell. Others, there are things like Louis' "South African Computer" at the end of Day Three, or Todd Green handing out certificates in reverse order of times on the F.A.S.T. Drill that will let one know where one stood.

But, yeah, I mostly just want to better than I did on Day One. Doing better than at least one other student is just a tiny egoboo.

 

[bwframe]

Some instructors, it can be hard to tell. Others, there are things like Louis' "South African Computer" at the end of Day Three, or Todd Green handing out certificates in reverse order of times on the F.A.S.T. Drill that will let one know where one stood.

Ahh, I see. Thank you.

 

[EPD1102]

Good training at a reasonable price here in Indiana:
http://www.hardtargetfirearms.com/

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Others, there are things like Louis' "South African Computer" at the end of Day Three,

On which you did very well.

 

[youngda9]

I am not against training in any way. I wish more people would do it more often. It is cost prohibitive because it isn't seen as a "priority" to most.

I think the cheapest and most cost effective "training" is just to show up at IDPA or IPSC practice sessions or matches. Most techniques can be honed there with free advice from a wide variety of better shooters than you are. Take all that info and find out what works for YOU. Attending a multi-hundred-dollar class may result in learning one specific technique from a teacher that does not work for you. And there are many techniques out there that can get the job done.

Train, Train, Train...on your own time to figure out what works best for you and perfect your skills as much as possible.

The homework on SD legalities is 100% on you. I've read all of the laws, police reports, case studies, and books(Ayoob, Jordan, Keith, Cirillo, Cooper, +etc) on shooting and the subject of self defense that I could get my hands on...enough to fill a library. Seen lots of Youtube videos also about many different techniques from experts to complete idiots. Attending a single course will not engrain these things perminently in your grey matter. It is something that requires dilligence to keep up with laws to know exactly what you're legally capable of doing if the time comes.

$0.02

 

[Tamara]

Attending a multi-hundred-dollar class may result in learning one specific technique from a teacher that does not work for you.

I mean this as respectfully as possible, but that sentence right there indicates an unfamiliarity with what a good class or instructor is about.

I used to think I had it all downpat, too. I was a classic victim of the Dunning-Kruger Effect in action.

 

[youngda9]

I mean this as respectfully as possible, but that sentence right there indicates an unfamiliarity with what a good class or instructor is about.

I used to think I had it all downpat, too. I was a classic victim of the Dunning-Kruger Effect in action.

If your instructer professes the Weaver stance and only the Isosolese(sp) works for you then what. Also if the instructor professes point shooting and you just don't have the hand-eye coordination for that then what. If you carry a revolver and your instructor doesn't teach this properly(having little experience) or disparages revolver carry then what. I could go on and on.

Different strokes for different folks. Sorry but technique isn't a "one size fits all" proposition. You may have found an instructor whose techniques work for YOU, doesn't mean they'll work for ME.

Gather info from MANY sources and figure out what works for you, that's my point.

 

[Tamara]

If your instructer professes the Weaver stance and only the Isosolese(sp) works for you then what.

Good instructors, at least in basic classes, are rarely all that dogmatic about "stance". At Awerbuck classes, I've seen people using everything from Weaver to full on ModIso, and Louis was capable of helping each shooter get the best out of how they were shooting.

Also if the instructor professes point shooting and you just don't have the hand-eye coordination for that then what

Don't go to a "point-shooting class", period. You can pump lead into the berm at Iggle Crick all day for $20, why let somebody soak you for three figures for the same privilege?

If you carry a revolver and your instructor doesn't teach this properly(having little experience) or disparages revolver carry then what.

A little bit of research will turn up good revolver instructors.

Seriously, with gun school, as with anything else, you need to be an informed consumer and research what you're buying. Read AARs. Ask people who've been (and not just that instructor's nuthuggers, either. Find people who were dissatisfied and find out why, and ask yourself if those same things would make you unhappy.)

Seriously, the above objections are like telling people not to go car shopping, because what if they buy a Miata and it won't pull their horse trailer?

You may have found an instructor whose techniques work for YOU, doesn't mean they'll work for ME.

Gather info from MANY sources and figure out what works for you, that's my point.

Which is why I seek out training from many instructors.

As I wrote elsewhere, "Beware the man with one trainer, as he has probably been successfully marketed to."

Any instructor who does not actively encourage you to seek out training with other instructors isn't trying to teach you something, he's trying to sell you something.