Huge Breakthrough in Energy Production

[ATOMonkey]

Now, this is an alternative fuel that I can get down with.

Using bacteria to convernt cellulose directly to butanol.

http://summitcountyvoice.com/2011/08/29/old-newspapers-could-be-converted-to-biofuel/

The bacteria is being called TU-103.

There are other aerobic and anerobic digesters currently being used to produce "biogas" which is anything from methane to butanol.

The Fair Oaks dairy is the only operation I'm familure with that does so in order to be fully independant.

Very cool stuff. This is the kind of technology that will prove to be a point of singularity in Energy production.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Now, this is an alternative fuel that I can get down with.

Using bacteria to convernt cellulose directly to butanol.

http://summitcountyvoice.com/2011/08/29/old-newspapers-could-be-converted-to-biofuel/

The bacteria is being called TU-103.

There are other aerobic and anerobic digesters currently being used to produce "biogas" which is anything from methane to butanol.

The Fair Oaks dairy is the only operation I'm familure with that does so in order to be fully independant.

Very cool stuff. This is the kind of technology that will prove to be a point of singularity in Energy production.

Got any idea what the octane rating of butanol is compared to gasoline or diesel fuel? One of the reasons alternative energy programs aren't taking off for transportation needs is that none of them - so far - provides equivalent energy compared to the cost of production. Butanol may be a partial solution, if it works on garbage and can be competitive with petroleum based fuels.

 

[Rookie]

The CDC will be there soon to shut it down

 

[Westside]

I have been following this for while.

It can actually be ran in all gas engines now with no conversion, not just the E85 engines but every gas engine made.

BP is spending big money on this right now. they are actually sponsoring a race team to run completely on the stuff to help nail down the formula with the best results.

It can also be made in the exact same factories that make ethanol currently, since butanol is a byproduct and you get more butanol then you do ethanol out of the same procedure.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

It can also be made in the exact same factories that make ethanol currently, since butanol is a byproduct and you get more butanol then you do ethanol out of the same procedure.

Good, because ethanol is a joke, and just another reason why lobbyists should be banned from Washington.

 

[Westside]

I was reading something awhile ago that they are have great results with corn chaff, not the kernels but the cobs, leafs, stalks, husks, etc. at making large quantities of butanol.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Got any idea what the octane rating of butanol is compared to gasoline or diesel fuel? One of the reasons alternative energy programs aren't taking off for transportation needs is that none of them - so far - provides equivalent energy compared to the cost of production. Butanol may be a partial solution, if it works on garbage and can be competitive with petroleum based fuels.

Octane rating is the measure of detonation-ability. Octane is the actual name for the commercial product called gasoline. Your useless facts for the day...

What we're looking for here is energy density, since everyone is going to want to know miles per gallon compared to gasoline.

I say, who cares. We're making fuel out of garbage without using any energy to do so. All that's required is conditions to keep the bacteria alive.

However, compared to gasoline butanol has an energy density of roughly 4/5, and requires an AFR of 11.2 (however it can be safely run in a lean condition)

One of the big advantages over ethanol is that it does not absorb water as readily, which is good for storage and your seals.

 

[eldirector]

Yeah, butanol is a MUCH better choice than ethanol for a fossil-fuel replacement. Higher energy content, little-to-no conversion for any current IC engines, and no pesky ATF rules. "Octane" is about the same as regular gas (87-ish).

If I remember correctly, Butanol is also a tad toxic. Surely no worse than gasoline, though.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

I wonder how much plant material would be needed to produce 19 million barrels of fuel per day, and where this would be produced at...

 

[Westside]

I wonder how much plant material would be needed to produce 19 million barrels of fuel per day, and where this would be produced at...

see my comment above.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Didn't they do this in a Mad Max movie?

 

[ATOMonkey]

Collecting methane from naturally decomposing manure (which is what they were doing in Mad Max, to the best of my recollection) is not nearly as efficient as a digester.

Currently, using Mad Max tech, we collect methane from naturally decomposing material in landfills. They typically just vent it so that the landfills don't blow up, but recently industry has been collecting it to run turbines and generate electricity. Since landfills are normally situated near industrial areas, this works out pretty well.

This is a big step forward as it really speeds up the process of breaking down waste material into a readily usable fuel.

Methane gas at room temp and pressure really isn't that impressive. You need to compress it or liquify it to really start to see any measurable improvement over the statis quo.

Butanol is already a liquid and has a fairly high energy density compared with gasoline. So, that kills the tranporation issue and fuel economy birds with one stone.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

How many times have we read stories like this only to never see them come to fruition? I guess I'm getting too cynical, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'd like to see some figures on cost/gallon to the consumer compared to gas and diesel. There's got to be a catch (or two). I hope it works out, but I'm not getting too excited just yet.

 

[eldirector]

How many times have we read stories like this only to never see them come to fruition? I guess I'm getting too cynical, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'd like to see some figures on cost/gallon to the consumer compared to gas and diesel. There's got to be a catch (or two). I hope it works out, but I'm not getting too excited just yet.

Current Butanol production is in the $4 / gallon price range. The process linked in the OP could drastically reduce the cost. For instance, DuPont is targeting under $40 per BARREL once production ramps up. That is with existing technology in existing production facilities.

We need to remove the roadblocks that are holding innovation back. Corn subsidies and outrageous EPA restrictions, as well as the auto industries love affair with ethanol aren't encouraging folks to look at new tech.

 

[ATOMonkey]

This is great for the DIY or prepper too. No more squeezing oil out of soy beans, no cooking corn for ethanol.

You just dump all your trash into the butanol vat and voila!! Instant fuel.

Hell, you can probably put bad guys and all kinds of other "unwanted" stuff in there and turn it into fuel too.

 

[printcraft]

 

[Stschil]

It's a Farce! Lobbyists from the Wall Street Journal, NY Times, LA Times, and the Chicago papers are behind this. They are trying to increase their sales, which have slumped horribly since wide spread use of Uncle Al's Internet Thingy has taken off.! Just another hidden Government Subsidy being handed out to the liberal lap dogs.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Who doesn't drink all of their high life? It's the champagne of beer!!!

 

[badwolf.usmc]

see my comment above.

Per the wiki, 13 billion gallons of Ethanol was produced last year, or ~50 millions gallons per day. At current level, we need about 378 million gallons of fuel per day. Is there the ability to build & produce 7 times as much as we produce now?

How much plant material would it take to meet current fuel demands?

 

[ATOMonkey]

I don't think Butanol is a replacement for gasoline, but it could surely help to reduce the amount of oil we consume, while at the same time reducing the amount of material being put into landfills.