How would you have reacted?

[redneckmedic]

So this Am after work I thought I would stop by Long's Donuts and surprise my pregnant wife with a sweet treat. I was in line with the normal Long's crowd of mixed nuts. Some Sunday go'ers some street walkers some regulars. I try to pay attention to my surrounds as most of us here do, and I try even harder to be casual (as in not CC arrogant, like I used to when I first got ma LTCH a few yrs back), and even more hard not to over react to what is probably nothing.

So I made the turn around the line barrier and now on the opposite side of those ahead of me in line. This fella ahead of me 6'4" 300ish Baggy Embroidered Jean Shorts and long printed shirt had a 357 clipped into his jeans front pocket completely exposed. No biggie, glad I caught it. As he walked up to pay both of his hands drop down to his sides, the left into his pocket and his right resting on his revolver's grip. When the cash register opened his right hand slid into the revolvers grip a little more towards the hammer......

The story stops here, Since there is nothing more to tell. He paid and was on his way. Although my heart rate increased and my right hand instinctively found its place under my over shirt and rested on my belt against my poly frame. I thought this might be the "moment" that we all talk about and train for. Or was I being an idiot looking to deep into the situation. I didn't grip my glock nor take a 'ready' position, or opened my shoulders. I just simply brought my hand to my waist.

Oh and one more thing, you bet your rear end I profile when I'm in public, sorry if that insults anyone, but I do.

Did I over react? What's your take INGO?

 

[concrete dog]

doesnt sound like it to me.you keeped your calm,you never know when that moment may or may not come

 

[infidel]

I would say you did exactly what I would have done. It was without a shadow of a doubt the right thing in my eyes, but everyone's opinion is different. I would say putting your hand on the grip, ready to pull would be over-reacting.

+1 for situational awareness
+1 for profiling
+1 for having a good head on your shoulders
+1 for being a good man to your wife

Did you notice anybody else noticing the man?

 

[Rotor Talker]

Some will disagree, but I have always believed that descretion is the better part of valor.

You kept your cool, kept your eyes on his hands, better to be able to give an accurate description to the police than to be a skills mannekin for Engine and Medic 1.

Then again, they probably don't respond to Long's, but that shows my age!

I'll PM you on that message you sent me a while back, I managed to lose it when I went to reply, sorry

Overall, I'd say well done this morning

later

 

[shawkpilot]

I thought that it was wrong to hold you grip in public. Something about brandishing, or something. Maybe that was another state, but I do remember something about not touching the gun in public.

 

[redneckmedic]

I thought that it was wrong to hold you grip in public. Something about brandishing, or something. Maybe that was another state, but I do remember something about not touching the gun in public.

Sorry tough description to mentally picture. Hand on belt with the coke snorters valley against my mag end grip. Didn't show weapon and didn't grip it either. And Indiana law says nothing about brandishing that I am aware of, and I have looked everywhere.

But thanks for your input, it's always welcome.

 

[Son of Liberty]

I think you reacted just fine, stayed on alert without overreacting.
Dont agree with infidel +1 for profiling, wouldn't have mattered if he was wearing tight jeans plaid shirt and a cowboy hat reaction should have been the same. Great work.

 

[Bisley Man]

I would have done the same thing, get ready. Glad you didn't have to use it.Also looks like the man you observed needs a "little"handgun training!

 

[infidel]

Dont agree with infidel +1 for profiling, wouldn't have mattered if he was wearing tight jeans plaid shirt and a cowboy hat reaction should have been the same.

PERSON #1 - gangstered out clothes jersey 5 times too big, shorts close to their ankles that are half way down their ***, lets say Mexican, and tattoos. Handgun visible by grip sticking out of pocket.

PERSON #2 - proper sized blue jeans, polo shirt tucked in, clean cut middle aged white guy. Good retention OC holster.

I am baffled by the people that can stand there and tell me there is no reason I should be more suspect of one than the other. I find it's either because they can relate to person #1, or that they are simply ignorant of the facts.

 

[redneckmedic]

PERSON #1 - gangstered out clothes jersey 5 times too big, shorts close to their ankles that are half way down their ***, lets say Mexican, and tattoos. Handgun visible by grip sticking out of pocket.

PERSON #2 - proper sized blue jeans, polo shirt tucked in, clean cut middle aged white guy. Good retention OC holster.

Hey I didn't see you there?!? You just described the situation to the 'T', except my button down was over my G26 not vise versa.

 

[GuyRelford]

So this Am after work I thought I would stop by Long's Donuts and surprise my pregnant wife with a sweet treat. I was in line with the normal Long's crowd of mixed nuts. Some Sunday go'ers some street walkers some regulars. I try to pay attention to my surrounds as most of us here do, and I try even harder to be casual (as in not CC arrogant, like I used to when I first got ma LTCH a few yrs back), and even more hard not to over react to what is probably nothing.

So I made the turn around the line barrier and now on the opposite side of those ahead of me in line. This fella ahead of me 6'4" 300ish Baggy Embroidered Jean Shorts and long printed shirt had a 357 clipped into his jeans front pocket completely exposed. No biggie, glad I caught it. As he walked up to pay both of his hands drop down to his sides, the left into his pocket and his right resting on his revolver's grip. When the cash register opened his right hand slid into the revolvers grip a little more towards the hammer......

The story stops here, Since there is nothing more to tell. He paid and was on his way. Although my heart rate increased and my right hand instinctively found its place under my over shirt and rested on my belt against my poly frame. I thought this might be the "moment" that we all talk about and train for. Or was I being an idiot looking to deep into the situation. I didn't grip my glock nor take a 'ready' position, or opened my shoulders. I just simply brought my hand to my waist.

Oh and one more thing, you bet your rear end I profile when I'm in public, sorry if that insults anyone, but I do.

Did I over react? What's your take INGO?

I think your reaction was perfect, IMHO. You had great situational awareness, with no over-reaction. And you certainly didn't "brandish." If you had drawn and aimed your weapon, you may have had an issue with
IC 35-47-4-3, subject to an important exemption:

"Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally points a firearm at another person commits a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the firearm was not loaded.
As added by P.L.296-1995, SEC.2."

I'm very glad that you didn't draw and aim, but when the gentleman's hand touched the grip of his pistol at the cash register, you may have been justified in doing so under IC 35-41-3-2, and therefore exempt from IC 35-47-4-3:

"Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. "

Would you have had a "reasonable belief" that "unlawful force" was "imminent"? Probably not, and I'd hate to have to let a prosecutor decide whether to charge you, much less let a jury decide whether to convict you at trial, but I think you would have had a decent argument (and I'd take your case!).

Again, I am NOT saying that you should have drawn your weapon or taken any other action. There could have been serious consequences. I think your reaction was right on under the circumstances.

Just my .

 

[Joe Williams]

I do wonder... while you were watching him and worried about him robbing the place because he was OC'ing, how many people were watching YOU for the same reason? While it's certainly incumbent on us to be aware of who and what is around us, do we really have a moral footing to make fun of "sheeple," if we react the same way they do when we see a man with a gun?

 

[slackerisme]

I do wonder... while you were watching him and worried about him robbing the place because he was OC'ing, how many people were watching YOU for the same reason? While it's certainly incumbent on us to be aware of who and what is around us, do we really have a moral footing to make fun of "sheeple," if we react the same way they do when we see a man with a gun?

I think you did the reasonable thing. I think I would have reacted the same way. But honestly my first thought was very similar to this. Are we here to protect second amendment rights for everyone, or just those that style of dress does not remind us of a criminal we saw on TV once?

 

[infidel]

I do wonder... while you were watching him and worried about him robbing the place because he was OC'ing, how many people were watching YOU for the same reason? While it's certainly incumbent on us to be aware of who and what is around us, do we really have a moral footing to make fun of "sheeple," if we react the same way they do when we see a man with a gun?

I understand what you're saying completely, however I would have to make a point against that. I would guess that 90% of the people in the building didn't notice, which would lead me to conclude that he was not acting like a sheep because he did notice, and even less like a sheep because he was ready to react. I know you aren't calling RM a sheep, I'm just sayin.

 

[Cygnus]

I would say you did exactly what I would have done. It was without a shadow of a doubt the right thing in my eyes, but everyone's opinion is different. I would say putting your hand on the grip, ready to pull would be over-reacting.

+1 for situational awareness
+1 for profiling
+1 for having a good head on your shoulders
+1 for being a good man to your wife

Did you notice anybody else noticing the man?

I agree

 

[redneckmedic]

I do wonder... while you were watching him and worried about him robbing the place because he was OC'ing, how many people were watching YOU for the same reason? While it's certainly incumbent on us to be aware of who and what is around us, do we really have a moral footing to make fun of "sheeple," if we react the same way they do when we see a man with a gun?

...my right hand found its place under my over shirt and rested on my belt against my poly frame.

...I didn't grip my glock

Hand on belt with the coke snorters valley against my mag end grip. Didn't show weapon and didn't grip it either.

I'm sure if you would have paid the attention necessary to gain all of the facts in the thread you would have the same amount of information that I had in the scenario.

 

[infidel]

This thread reminded me of an older thread, which by the way, was started by Medic. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...fense/35500-how_you_carry_speaks_volumes.html

The linked thread did not directly deal with profiling, though it did relate, and some responses talked about it.

 

[Rotor Talker]

On a more realistic note.......

In order to lighten things up a bit:

You should have thought

"WWCND"

What Would Chuck Norris Do?

'nuff said

Glad it all worked out safe, really

 

[redneckmedic]

This thread reminded me of an older thread, which by the way, was started by Medic. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...fense/35500-how_you_carry_speaks_volumes.html

The linked thread did not directly deal with profiling, though it did relate, and some responses talked about it.

Ha, I forgot all about that thread, you necroposter you!

 

[Son of Liberty]

Profiling sets you up for failure, it could be the time your judging the guy with a long shirt and baggy pants that you miss the guy all clean cut tucked in shirt white guy pulling his gun robbing the place or blowing your brains out. If you saw me you would probably profile me as a gangster type with my brown skin and non tight clothes (i dont sag, but my clothes are a little loose) depending if I'm at work or not. Point is profiling might cost you your life when your wrong. Question though, is it right for me to look at all middle aged white guys and assume their racist? As that has been my experience in the past. I dont do that cause I would miss out on a lot of good people. As you will.