How much success would the Dems have if they COMPLETELY dropped the gun issue?

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  • mcjon77

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    I have been thinking about this for a while.

    While we can talk about minority coalitions and recapturing the White working class, I don't know if anyone in the Democratic party realizes just how much the anti-gun stance has cost them.

    I wonder what would happen if the Democrats, as a whole, COMPLETELY dropped ANY additional gun control from their platform. No more trying to close the non-existent gun show loophole. No more banning people on the "no fly" list from buying firearms. No more talk of assault weapons bans or magazine capacity limits. They tell Moms Demand Action to go look for some action someplace else. I am talking a complete and total surrender/reversal on guns.

    The reason why I bring this up is that I have a TON of friends on both the left and the right. In terms of my right leaning friends, my personal experience is that 70% of them would be at least open to the Democrats if it were not for the gun control issue. It is as if once they determined that one side was for guns and one side was against, they joined the side that was pro-2a THEN adjusted their other beliefs accordingly. Many didn't even do that. I can't count how many pro-choice, pro-weed, pro-gay marriage, pro-2a people I know. Many are libertarians, but a few are also pro-universal healthcare, pro-union, anti-trade types. However the 2A is a deal breaker for them. Sure, there are people for whom abortion is a deal breaker, but they are MUCH smaller in number.

    The thing that frustrates me is that if the Dems just drop that issue, even the anti-gunners are going to have to stay with them. Where else are they going to go? The Dems would lose virtually NOTHING by dropping the gun issue and supporting the 2A, but the leadership and certain special interests just wants to shove it down everyone else's throat.

    What does it get them? Congratulations, a few states and cities like California, New York, and Chicago have draconian bans on "assault weapons". A handful of states still have concealed carry bans. The trade off? A Republican President, a Republican Senate, a Republican House of Representatives, a soon to be Republican Supreme Court, 30 Republican Governors, and 69 or the 99 State houses are Republican controlled. They have basically ceded being even competitive in the majority of the country for crazy laws in a few states. Was it really worth it?
     

    cobber

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    It is more likely that the GOP would drop abortion and drugs from the list of no-nos. Both parties seem to have certain policies hard-wired into their platforms.

    Plus it seems to be a coastal elite liberal thing (and their camp followers), anti-plebean more than based on any particular political philosophy, e.g. William Weld.
     

    junk

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    personally I can't see a democrat dropping the issue . all of our mass shooters were democrats . but mostly , how could you believe them if they did ?
     

    SEIndSAM

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    Before we go and gloat about a new Repub mandate, just remember that the primary reason the Libs lost was their mishandling of the economy the past 8 years (Obamacare) and the fact that they ran the most corrupt candidate in modern history.

    The gun issue may cost them in the midwest and deep south, but on the coasts in their traditional seats of power it's not much of a negative.
     

    Bill of Rights

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    The 2A issue is my primary opposition to the Dems. It's far from the only one, though. For me, ampng other things, I want candidates that follow the whole Constitution. I want leadership that doesn't try to tax me to death and then expect more when I die. I want a group of people that want each adult living citizen, and only adult, living citizens, to have one vote.

    The GOP does not hit all of those points. They do come closer to it than the Dems do, however, so even dropping the 2A as an issue would only make them slightly more acceptable to me than they are now... which is not at all.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     

    joncon

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    The 2A issue is my primary opposition to the Dems. It's far from the only one, though. For me, ampng other things, I want candidates that follow the whole Constitution. I want leadership that doesn't try to tax me to death and then expect more when I die. I want a group of people that want each adult living citizen, and only adult, living citizens, to have one vote.

    The GOP does not hit all of those points. They do come closer to it than the Dems do, however, so even dropping the 2A as an issue would only make them slightly more acceptable to me than they are now... which is not at all.

    Blessings,
    Bill
    Well said. I agree.
     

    jamil

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    It is more likely that the GOP would drop abortion and drugs from the list of no-nos. Both parties seem to have certain policies hard-wired into their platforms.

    Plus it seems to be a coastal elite liberal thing (and their camp followers), anti-plebean more than based on any particular political philosophy, e.g. William Weld.

    This. Every talking head I hear from the coastal elites is completely out of touch with inner America.
     

    avboiler11

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    I believe the state of Kentucky is a great example of how Democrats have shifted politically in the last 20 or so years.

    Historically, local and state politics in Kentucky were DOMINATED by Democrats. You could say that dates back to the post-Reconstruction era Southern Democrat period, but the point is the same. In the 80s many of those died-in-the-wool Democrats turned into Reagan Democrats, and as the Democratic Party as a whole became more urban and progressive, the Reagan Democrat turned into a Republican. Today, after the 2016 election Republicans control the Governors office and both Houses of the Legislature with supermajorities.

    I believe Democrats would have a compelling economic case to make across much of the rural south and industrial midwest, IF they would leave many social issues alone.

    ...then again, I kind of feel the same about Republicans having a compelling economic case to make across the coasts and population centers, IF they would leave many social issues alone.

    I would say that the needs, issues, and concerns of people living in densely populated coastal population centers are different than those living in a rural area where once-dominate industry has faded. So long as the current strain of progressive urban Democrats demonizes large numbers of people as "stupid/racist/xenophobic/misogynistic/biased" those people are going to feel attacked, and aren't going to be interested in 1. the progressive Democrat's cause de'jour that has jack squat to do with rural concerns and 2. they are going to fiercely defend THEIR culture, THEIR rights, and THEIR way of life.

    It doesn't have to be this way...
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Among one issue voters, "guns" or "abortion" tends to be that one issue. It'd be interesting to see how things played out if both of those were off the table. A more widespread look at candidates, or new "one issue" issues?
     

    jamil

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    Among one issue voters, "guns" or "abortion" tends to be that one issue. It'd be interesting to see how things played out if both of those were off the table. A more widespread look at candidates, or new "one issue" issues?

    As it would pertain to this election, given the prospect of Donald Trump as the other choice, I could have voted Democrat this time if Democrats...

    didn't nominate a criminal.
    didn't nominate a pathological liar.
    hadn't gotten caught colluding with the press.
    hadn't gotten caught trying to rig elections.
    hadn't turned into the official party of gun control.
    weren't taken over by lunatic social justice warriors.
    hadn't almost nominated a socialist.
    weren't sure to nominate even more social justice warriors to the SCOTUS.

    If they'd have nominated a sane candidate, I could have overlooked my own ideological preferences in a candidate, since I wouldn't get those in Donald Trump anyway. But since they did nominate the criminal, and all those other things, I voted for Trump.

    And now that I think about it, I really wish I'd have brought a clothespin to clip on my nose while voting, as a demonstration of my own feckless protest.
     

    jwh20

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    I really don't ever see this happening. The Democratic Party has made their war on the 2A a central tenet of their philosophy. It's ingrained into Democrats at all levels of government and has become dogma. They and their allies in the "press" have done all they can do to instill irrational fear of firearms, firearms owners, and the NRA into their constituents so that many are to the point of actively advocating that they now have a "right" to live in a gun-free society. (Think I'm kidding, just read some of their crap in Slate, Salon, or the NY Times!)

    Further, these people don't ever admit to mistakes. You're seeing this now with the 2016 election outcome. Are ANY of them admitting they made errors in their strategies? Nope, they are blaming the other side for being racist hateful white men!

    No, I'm confident that the Democrats will go to their collective graves on this issue. When they again come back into power, and I have no doubt that the pendulum will swing back eventually, you can be sure they will move forward on gun control with all possible urgency. This, of course, is why the SCOTUS matters so much right now.
     

    jamil

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    I really don't ever see this happening. The Democratic Party has made their war on the 2A a central tenet of their philosophy. It's ingrained into Democrats at all levels of government and has become dogma. They and their allies in the "press" have done all they can do to instill irrational fear of firearms, firearms owners, and the NRA into their constituents so that many are to the point of actively advocating that they now have a "right" to live in a gun-free society. (Think I'm kidding, just read some of their crap in Slate, Salon, or the NY Times!)

    Further, these people don't ever admit to mistakes. You're seeing this now with the 2016 election outcome. Are ANY of them admitting they made errors in their strategies? Nope, they are blaming the other side for being racist hateful white men!

    No, I'm confident that the Democrats will go to their collective graves on this issue. When they again come back into power, and I have no doubt that the pendulum will swing back eventually, you can be sure they will move forward on gun control with all possible urgency. This, of course, is why the SCOTUS matters so much right now.

    It depends who wins the internal war. Traditional liberals or progressives/SJWs.
     

    T.Lex

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    I've actually had this discussion with Indiana democrats. News flash: they'd prefer to leave guns alone.

    Most of them don't like guns, don't like that people are allowed to carry guns, but don't want to "take guns away." (A couple admit that they'd have guns for home defense "if they needed it.") It is just not an issue that is important to them. If it meant winning more elections, and having elected leaders who would do more progressive things in other areas, they would gladly avoid any further regulation of guns.

    Think of it as the corollary of Mitch Daniels' approach. They'd absolutely be willing to trade no new abortion regulations for no new gun regulations.

    But these are Indiana democrats.
     

    T.Lex

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    Are these rank and file democrats or leaders and legislators?

    So.

    I would say the majority are rank and file.

    Some are behind-the-scenes policy people and/or formerly part of democrat administrations.

    A couple either are or were directly involved in the legislature.

    All of them are decent people (as far as I know). :)

    Since he's been previously referenced on INGO, I've never directly talked to Ed Delaney on the issue of gun control. But, I understand why he'd be motivated in that area.
     

    two70

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    The question posed in the thread title is a nonsensical one, the Dems are incapable of dropping the gun issue. Control is the ultimate goal of the left and private gun ownership puts a major limit on the ability to fully achieve the control they want.
     

    miguel

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    Me thinks they would have a **** ton more success supporting guns, dope and gibsmedats for old and young.
     
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