How much more will you pay to support a LGS that allows carry?

[BehindBlueI's]

How would a sign keep said jack ass from taking you to court?

Woman sues Kroger, ex-manager over shooting | 2013-02-08 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com

Kroger's no weapons policy certainly didn't save them from a lawsuit even thought the employee admitted he broke the rule.

Seems to me like it would be judged under the same type of scrutiny as an exculpatory clause. I'm not a lawyer and my civil law is remembered from a class that took place about 9 years ago, but I don't see the sign mattering a tinker's damn when it comes time to decide liability.

However even with the working theory that the sign does in some way matter for insurance or legal reasons, could the sign "keep loaded weapons holstered" not accomplish the exact same thing while still supporting the right to carry?

 

[Mark 1911]

I could not find an appropriate response. I never have understood the controversy surrounding carrying in a gun store. Cabela's sells guns, I always carry in Cabela's, doesn't cost me extra. I have purchased the majority of my arms from Blythe's, I have always carried in Blythe's, and I have never been asked not to, have actually received some compliments from the employees.

There should be a response that says - No need to pay more, I shop gun stores that are pro-2A.

 

[danielson]

I was always of the understanding that they were attemting to remind people to not bring loaded weapons to sell. Although Im sure theres a certain amount of self preservation there.

 

[Scutter01]

Then, I would smile, and say see you later, and turn around, and go to ITP, or Bradis, or BGF, or PSS, and spend some money there..... Aren't you the guys, that hand out the cards, that say, NO guns= No MONEY ?????

That's exactly what I did. I no longer shop at either store.

 

[Truckerman79]

The fact that "so many stores do not have signs" is not sufficient to conclude that the necessity is not an insurance issue. It is possible, and likely, that the ones who do not have such a sign do not out of ignorance and/or defiance. With all else equal, I would more quickly frequent a store with such a sign than without, as I would conclude (again, with all else equal) that the owner is a better businessman.

Logic FTW. Our "right to carry" ends on private property. The signs are obviously for insurance reasons. Loaded guns in stores are a higher risk in the eyes of underwriters. Some shop owners will enforce their rules more vigorously. Don't feel so butthurt when they exercise their right to do so. I, for one, would not want someone in my home who I do not know or trust carrying a loaded gun.

 

[Simon6101]

I have

Why don't you? (charge them, I mean, not draw on them.) Do you at least ask them to leave?

I have asked them to leave after making the statement" It is always the unloaded gun that kills."

What is better is informing them that they have commited a felony by pointing it at me. The amazing looks that they get on their face and then the stupid question." How do you figuire that?" That is the moment that I inform them that I am a LEO and when pointing a firearm at one it becomes a felony. They tend to leave very quickly.

 

[j4jenk]

Popguns told me to exit and remove my magazine before re-entering. Cabela's ejected me outright for carrying.

I've carried in both, although it has been years since I was in Pop Guns.

I'm pretty sure the only sign i've seen at the Cabelas in Hammond says something to effect of guns being brought in for trade or repair have to be checked at the front desk.

Was the incident at Cabelas recent. I haven't been there in a few months.

 

[j4jenk]

I have asked them to leave after making the statement" It is always the unloaded gun that kills."

What is better is informing them that they have commited a felony by pointing it at me. The amazing looks that they get on their face and then the stupid question." How do you figuire that?" That is the moment that I inform them that I am a LEO and when pointing a firearm at one it becomes a felony. They tend to leave very quickly.

Um...so pointing a gun at you = felony, but pointing a gun at me = bad manners?

 

[s-works]

You can sue anyone for almost anything.

I had a guy sue me for falling down on a wet floor with signs present. I had a witness that saw the guy peer around suspiciously to see if anyone was looking and fall down into a bathroom. Even saw the guy bang on the door as hard as he could before he fell. This was a customer that was well regarded in the community. An employee on the scene (second witness) put so many holes in the guys story that it made it a sure bet to be dismissed in court. Oh, he also had another pending lawsuit that was a product manufacturing issue. The mfg. company and my company were named in the lawsuit. The mfg. company should have idemmnfied me but wouldn't release me until I told their attorney I would be the guys best witness if it went to trial.

This guy was known as a serial dirt bag. The guy even lied to his attorney about some of the facts. I remember the other attorney going for a settlement and our carrier saying no chance in hell. Ten minutes before it was to be submitted to trial I think the insurance carrier settled for a mere 19 grand. This is a simple slip and fall case. If I didnt have the sign there I would have been toast.

 

[Mark 1911]

I was always of the understanding that they were attemting to remind people to not bring loaded weapons to sell. Although Im sure theres a certain amount of self preservation there.

Exactly. It seems odd that they would have to remind anyone, but shouldn't be surprised at the dumb stuff some people will do. Seems to be common sense not to unholster your carry weapon in a gun store, same as you wouldn't unholster your carry weapon anywhere else except for defensive purposes. Guns brought in for service have to be unloaded. Everyone knows that - right?

 

[Simon6101]

Depends

Um...so pointing a gun at you = felony, but pointing a gun at me = bad manners?

Yes pointing a Loaded Firearm at a LEO is a Felony, Pointing a Loaded Firearm in general starts as a misdemeaner.

You stating bad manners I will guess that you are referring to having an Unloaded firearm handed across the counter muzzle first for you to look at. Yes that is bad manners.

 

[DC47374]

Logic FTW. Our "right to carry" ends on private property. The signs are obviously for insurance reasons. Loaded guns in stores are a higher risk in the eyes of underwriters. Some shop owners will enforce their rules more vigorously. Don't feel so butthurt when they exercise their right to do so. I, for one, would not want someone in my home who I do not know or trust carrying a loaded gun.

If that's the case...why do you think it's ok for yourself or anyone to carry in public? After all...we don't know everyone walking around with a gun. Think about your argument for just a second.....then do the face palm. Your argument is illogical to the highest degree.

 

[bwframe]

There wouldn't be any signs unless there was a reason. The reason is that a lot of us are just plain stupid when it comes to firearms safety. It's a shame for the rest of us, at least those that care about signs anyway.

 

[j4jenk]

Yes pointing a Loaded Firearm at a LEO is a Felony, Pointing a Loaded Firearm in general starts as a misdemeaner.

You stating bad manners I will guess that you are referring to having an Unloaded firearm handed across the counter muzzle first for you to look at. Yes that is bad manners.

I get pointing a loaded firearm at a LEO on duty, or in uniform, or just because I know you are is an escalation because I've singled out a person based on status. I see how this would apply after you inform them of you are LEO. What I don't see is that there is a difference between some dude sweeping you or me if we're both standing at the counter in jeans and a t-shirt.

Isn't kind of like hate crime laws. If i beat and rob 3 people and 1 is a minority, it's not a hate crime, but if I beat and rob a guy because he is a minority it's a hate crime.

 

[Simon6101]

Always a LEO

I get pointing a loaded firearm at a LEO on duty, or in uniform, or just because I know you are is an escalation because I've singled out a person based on status. I see how this would apply after you inform them of you are LEO. What I don't see is that there is a difference between some dude sweeping you or me if we're both standing at the counter in jeans and a t-shirt.

Isn't kind of like hate crime laws. If i beat and rob 3 people and 1 is a minority, it's not a hate crime, but if I beat and rob a guy because he is a minority it's a hate crime.

A LEO is never actually off-duty. When I say pointing a firearm that is just what I meant. What i get irritated over is not being swept, it is the full blown pointing where I can tell what brand bullet they are carrying. And it happens more than you would think.

 

[Truckerman79]

If that's the case...why do you think it's ok for yourself or anyone to carry in public? After all...we don't know everyone walking around with a gun. Think about your argument for just a second.....then do the face palm. Your argument is illogical to the highest degree.

Your logic fails. When I am on my private property, I can control of who and what is on it. When I am out in public, I arm myself because I don't have control over property that is not mine. Therefore, arming myself in public puts me on a level playing field.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have asked them to leave after making the statement" It is always the unloaded gun that kills."

What is better is informing them that they have commited a felony by pointing it at me. The amazing looks that they get on their face and then the stupid question." How do you figuire that?" That is the moment that I inform them that I am a LEO and when pointing a firearm at one it becomes a felony. They tend to leave very quickly.

Yes pointing a Loaded Firearm at a LEO is a Felony, Pointing a Loaded Firearm in general starts as a misdemeaner.

You stating bad manners I will guess that you are referring to having an Unloaded firearm handed across the counter muzzle first for you to look at. Yes that is bad manners.

The victim being an LEO has NOTHING to do with the level of offense for pointing a firearm. Loaded weapon = felony, unloaded weapon = misdemeanor. Pointing a loaded firearm is NEVER a misdemeanor, its either a felony or an exempted act that's not a crime.

IC 35-47-4-3
Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally points a firearm at another person commits a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the firearm was not loaded.

 

[7.62]

More than half the shops I go in have a sign that says no loaded firearms. I pay as much attention to it as another place with a sign when it's legal to carry.

This....I don't read signs on doors. They don't carry weight of law so they might as well print it n the TP in the bathroom.

 

[Simon6101]

Gotta love em

Gotta love all the legal eagles.

 

[Never A Victim]

If you like to OC, don't go to Bare Arms in Noblesville. They will kick you out, no exceptions.