Homeland Response Forces are descending upon Missouri and nine other states

[jeremy]

I prefer to think like you as well. The Army was the first real family I ever knew. I will love it forever. It would be the hardest thing i have ever done so far in my life, to have to be against them. i would be a shell after that. I know a lot of soldiers would do the right thing, but i know some wouldnt.

Think back to your time in your Unit...
What do you think would have happened inside the Batt if Orders came down from on high to try something like this...
I have been in most of Our Divisions. Sure some of the Joes would be only to happy to follow the Order. But I think a greater number would offset them. I think what you would see first is a level of Frags that have not been seen since probably Nam...
The Divisions would tear themselves apart over this issue...

 

[jeremy]

I like reading this thread but I lack some of the knowledge needed to comment on some of the posts.

How many police and soldiers would it take to impose martial law on the U.S.? I am looking at this from my small town perspective. My town has one part time town marshall, so he won't be imposing any martial law since he has to work his regular job at the factory. Plus I can see his driveway from mine so when his squad car is gone I know he's out patrolling. That means at minimum, just for my little podunk town a group of soldiers or police would have to come here from somewhere else. Multiply that by all of the small towns in america. Then what about the cities? How many soldiers would it take to control New York or L.A.? On the news I see violence and explosions in the foreign cities that we do occupy with soldiers, so its clear that its pretty hard to control everyone even when the military is there.

The easy answer is there just is not enough of both combined to effectively do anything...

your forgetting allies of the U.S.


if martial law takes place they will use any means neccessary. but it would have to be a HUGE event to enact martial law in every city in the whole country.

Even with all of Our "Allies" I am not sure if it would be enough... You are looking at a very well armed populace spread over a vast amount of terrain. With a disproportionate amount of Veterans with a significant number of those with combat experience...
Ugly situation no matter how you look at it...

 

[SavageEagle]

Alright guys, I gotta go for tonight. Do NOT get this thread locked! I wanna give it a thorough read.

And BTW, what I said, it's not wrong.

 

[Eddie]

your forgetting allies of the U.S.


if martial law takes place they will use any means neccessary. but it would have to be a HUGE event to enact martial law in every city in the whole country.

Yeah, but that is what I am wondering. My closest experience were the little 500 riots back in the nineties. After two riots they did the zero tolerance thing and brought in tons of state troopers to augment the city, county and campus police. We were actually patrolling around in groups of ten with helicopters overhead. It succeeded in ruining little 500 for a bunch of college students and preventing lots of sex and drinking but it had to be enourmously expensive in terms of the overtime pay for all those guys.

Now that was just one town on one weekend targeting a specific area where the "bad guys" were just college kids that wanted to drink. I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around what it would take just to subdue one state in that manner, not to mention housing and feeding all of the enforcers. How long could such an overt effort be sustained? How many areas in just our state are there neighborhoods where occupying forces would just be regarded as somebody new to steal from? I am in no way saying it won't happen, I'm just asking those with experience what the warning signs would be. What are the logistics of moving in and setting up to do that level of occupation?

 

[Colt556]

Even with all of Our "Allies" I am not sure if it would be enough... You are looking at a very well armed populace spread over a vast amount of terrain. With a disproportionate amount of Veterans with a significant number of those with combat experience...
Ugly situation no matter how you look at it...

I think with the UN Troops and a combined force of NG, State and Local Police that they could probably control most major cities, especially the ones that are pretty much "Gun Free" already. I think the middle of the country and many rural areas would be up for grabs. I wonder how many gun owners would stand up for themselves if it came down to it. A lot of Bravado is spoken by key board commandos but I just wonder how many would actually back up their words. God I hope none of this ever happens but we need to be prepared for the worse. Shades of Red Dawn but maybe with a different beginning.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

I like reading this thread but I lack some of the knowledge needed to comment on some of the posts.

How many police and soldiers would it take to impose martial law on the U.S.? I am looking at this from my small town perspective. My town has one part time town marshall, so he won't be imposing any martial law since he has to work his regular job at the factory. Plus I can see his driveway from mine so when his squad car is gone I know he's out patrolling. That means at minimum, just for my little podunk town a group of soldiers or police would have to come here from somewhere else. Multiply that by all of the small towns in america. Then what about the cities? How many soldiers would it take to control New York or L.A.? On the news I see violence and explosions in the foreign cities that we do occupy with soldiers, so its clear that its pretty hard to control everyone even when the military is there.

First off they will go after the capitols of the states, control the capital control the state. They already did a dry run in indianapolis remember when the marines invaded and took over 26 sites. So they already now exactly how long it will take and how many soldiers they need.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOU934hhuEQ&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - *** MARTIAL LAW EXERCISE IN INDIANA - June 4-19 2008 ***[/ame]
As far as resistence well thats what the G20's are for. Those are large scale dry runs of major cities.

 

[Eddie]

I think with the UN Troops and a combined force of NG, State and Local Police that they could probably control most major cities, especially the ones that are pretty much "Gun Free" already. I think the middle of the country and many rural areas would be up for grabs. I wonder how many gun owners would stand up for themselves if it came down to it. A lot of Bravado is spoken by key board commandos but I just wonder how many would actually back up their words. God I hope none of this ever happens but we need to be prepared for the worse. Shades of Red Dawn but maybe with a different beginning.

Dunno but it makes me think back to the post earlier in the thread about the guy who said he would do whatever so long as he was getting paid. What happens to a personality type like that when the excitement of initially moving in and occupying an area is over? I mean we see news stories every year of LEO's who succumb and commit crimes while on duty. I would foresee massive amounts of corruption and black market dealing. Theft or "theft" of military supplies might become quite common. There would be more ways than one that the "neat toys" mentioned above could end up in the hands of private citizens.

 

[jeremy]

Yeah, but that is what I am wondering. My closest experience were the little 500 riots back in the nineties. After two riots they did the zero tolerance thing and brought in tons of state troopers to augment the city, county and campus police. We were actually patrolling around in groups of ten with helicopters overhead. It succeeded in ruining little 500 for a bunch of college students and preventing lots of sex and drinking but it had to be enourmously expensive in terms of the overtime pay for all those guys.

Now that was just one town on one weekend targeting a specific area where the "bad guys" were just college kids that wanted to drink. I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around what it would take just to subdue one state in that manner, not to mention housing and feeding all of the enforcers. How long could such an overt effort be sustained? How many areas in just our state are there neighborhoods where occupying forces would just be regarded as somebody new to steal from? I am in no way saying it won't happen, I'm just asking those with experience what the warning signs would be. What are the logistics of moving in and setting up to do that level of occupation?

I think with the UN Troops and a combined force of NG, State and Local Police that they could probably control most major cities, especially the ones that are pretty much "Gun Free" already. I think the middle of the country and many rural areas would be up for grabs. I wonder how many gun owners would stand up for themselves if it came down to it. A lot of Bravado is spoken by key board commandos but I just wonder how many would actually back up their words. God I hope none of this ever happens but we need to be prepared for the worse. Shades of Red Dawn but maybe with a different beginning.

Afghan will fit inside Texas pretty easily...
There are over 400,000 Combined Troops here...
We are not stopping anything here in any kind of timely manner... Even with a the Tech on Our side.
Oh by the Way that 400,000 is only uniformed Military Forces per Geneva Convention. That does not include the LEAs, or the "Contractors"...

The US is how much larger than Texas?!

 

[Eddie]

Afghan will fit inside Texas pretty easily...
There are over 400,000 Combined Troops here...
We are not stopping anything here in any kind of timely manner... Even with a the Tech on Our side.
Oh by the Way that 400,000 is only uniformed Military Forces per Geneva Convention. That does not include the LEAs, or the "Contractors"...

The US is how much larger than Texas?!

Isn't the population of Afghanistan about one tenth of what ours is?

 

[jeremy]

First off they will go after the capitols of the states, control the capital control the state. They already did a dry run in indianapolis remember when the marines invaded and took over 26 sites. So they already now exactly how long it will take and how many soldiers they need.

As far as resistence well thats what the G20's are for. Those are large scale dry runs of major cities.

LOL...
It would take an entire Active Duty Heavy Division to just hold little ol' Marion County. Maybe... Big Cities, Real Cities... Like Chicago, NYC, LA, Detroit DFW, Atlanta...

 

[WWIIIDefender]

They could also just say hey were doing a drill this weekend or that weekend. No need to worry about it says the news media. then come in and take over the city, when they had themselves all dug in and fortified announce a curfew and martial law.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Dunno but it makes me think back to the post earlier in the thread about the guy who said he would do whatever so long as he was getting paid. What happens to a personality type like that when the excitement of initially moving in and occupying an area is over? I mean we see news stories every year of LEO's who succumb and commit crimes while on duty. I would foresee massive amounts of corruption and black market dealing. Theft or "theft" of military supplies might become quite common. There would be more ways than one that the "neat toys" mentioned above could end up in the hands of private citizens.

well the good thing about most of the soldiers with that line of thinking is that they are the newest and least trained in my opinion. so the skilled and constitutional will outway the new and nieve in my opinion from what ive seen

 

[jeremy]

Isn't the population of Afghanistan about one tenth of what ours is?

The population of Afghan is roughly 30 million Peoples.
The Population of the USA is roughly 307 million Peoples.
The population of Texas is roughly 26 million...

Sooo...
400,000 Soldiers Minus LEA and "Contractors" to kinda hold Afghan. Which is a tenth the population of the US...
You would need at least 40 Million Soldiers minus LEA and "Contractors" for the US...

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I'm not sure how it's possible, after watching the two above videos, you or others would not assume the NG would act against fellow citizens... I hadn't seen those videos before today, I read about the roundups and disarmings, but the videos put it on a whole new level. If I saw to men heading up my stairs with M4's, that is the moment of truth, when the rubber meets the road. Do I submit, knowing it's wrong, or do I defend myself and family and be shot, or at the least on the wrong side of the law for the rest of my life.....????

I can't see the videos, so I can't respond to what is in them.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

LOL...
It would take an entire Active Duty Heavy Division to just hold little ol' Marion County. Maybe... Big Cities, Real Cities... Like Chicago, NYC, LA, Detroit DFW, Atlanta...

Well its not like there dealing with the whole population either only probably 1-3% 5 at best is what they have to worry about, the rest of the population will say oh yes sir, whats my bedtime, thank god im safe,

 

[jeremy]

They could also just say hey were doing a drill this weekend or that weekend. No need to worry about it says the news media. then come in and take over the city, when they had themselves all dug in and fortified announce a curfew and martial law.

IF it were only that easy...

When I said a Heavy Division, I meant a HEAVY DIVISION... Upwards of 30,000 Soldiers and Equipment. You can not move that many troops and assets around like that. LOL...
I am not even sure if that would be enough man power and equipment to hold a City the Size of Marion County... Certainly not enough to hold it in the same operation.

 

[Eddie]

Well its not like there dealing with the whole population either only probably 1-3% 5 at best is what they have to worry about, the rest of the population will say oh yes sir, whats my bedtime, thank god im safe,

Yes, but, think about the bad neighborhoods. The places where an occupying force is just somebody new to screw with. Heck I would pay good money to watch a group of foreign soldiers search a large trailer court. Even if there were no guns and no violent resisters I bet it would be better than Reno 911.

 

[jeremy]

Well its not like there dealing with the whole population either only probably 1-3% 5 at best is what they have to worry about, the rest of the population will say oh yes sir, whats my bedtime, thank god im safe,

Even with a only 2% of Indy standing up that is still around 17,000 people... You generally like to have at least 3 times the manpower of the defender before you try an attack... So that would work to be in excess of 51,000 troops. The Logistical tail alone would probably doom it if nothing else...

 

[Eddie]

Even with a only 2% of Indy standing up that is still around 17,000 people... You generally like to have at least 3 times the manpower of the defender before you try an attack... So that would work to be in excess of 51,000 troops. The Logistical tail alone would probably doom it if nothing else...

So when you say logistical tail, does that mean the 51,000 troops are doing nothing but controlling the area and still more are needed to provide food and such for them? How many more are you talking?

 

[Expat]

Even with a only 2% of Indy standing up that is still around 17,000 people... You generally like to have at least 3 times the manpower of the defender before you try an attack... So that would work to be in excess of 51,000 troops. The Logistical tail alone would probably doom it if nothing else...

And those numbers would quickly change. If an actual Obamanista Army tried to physically take the State over by force, there would be a lot of boys from around the State that would take up arms to join the defenders. I would figure at that point we hang together or all hang separately.