Help with generator...

[m82mike]

We have had our generator for 11 years. 20 kw, runs on propane,(same as furnace) Have a manuel transfer switch, and a shut off valve for the propane line. (to save wear on pressure reg.) Float charger for the starter battery. change oil after 1 Hr breakin run. I use 10w30 mobil 1 Syn. oil.
Generator is bolted to the floor in the garage with a exhaust going up thru
the roof. Living in the country, this is a must have.

Mike

 

[indychad]

Look at a web site called....Generatior Joe.com. This is the most complete
sorce of info. I found. We have a 5.5kw w/ transfer switch for the important
stuff. Generac is what I went w/ and it ran us 700.00 +/-. Look at a contractor supplier not Lowes.

 

[jedi]

I'm coming late to this party OP but here is my bit of info from my experience back in 2008 with a Genny after a tornadoe.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ness/12040-shtf_tornando_lessons_learned.html

The last post has a link to an eBook you might find useful

 

[wizard_of_ahs]

If you're on a budget; I have this Gentran Corporation wired to my box and power it from this 46515 - Champion Power Equipment

I took a new rv power cable and put a L5-30 plug on it. I've used this on and off for over 5 years. It powers all my essentials: refrigerator, furnace, lights, TV and Dish receiver !!!!

 

[citrigin]

I did not realize generators needed such frequent servicing. Good to know.

 

[citrigin]

Do all brands of generators need to serviced that often when in continuous use?

 

[Icarry2]

If you look in the instructions for whatever generator it will tell you what they recommend. One thing that very few cheaper generators do not have is an hour meter. You can add one but there are challenges with that.

As mentioned, unless you want to chance a failure, change oil and check air filters often. It has a lot to do with reliability, longevity, and honestly fuel efficency and fuel economy..

Pressure lubricated units with filters to me are better then splash lubricated units but cost more and there is something else you have to have spares of..

IMHO A simple list for a severe weather black out to short term SHTF.

Generator, wattage for starting and running critical items plus 20%
over rated contection cable
transfer switch
3 spare pre-filters
3 spare air filters
3 spare spark plugs
enough oil for changes a years worth of oil changes
enough oil filters for a years worth of changes if pressure lubricated
spare pull rope
fuel funnel if gas
locking cable long enough to secure it, not a chain, bolt cutters kill chain but hate cable..
fuel cans if cans or fuel source for at least 150 hours of run time
fuel stabilizer if needed (enough for your 450 hours worth of fuel)

If you own your home consider a permenant installed unit with an auto switch. Generac has affordable ones.

As for other issues, if you run a gasoline generator for 6 hours a day that gets 14 hours out of 5 gallons of fuel or 2.8 hours per gallon and expect to have a years worth of fuel you will need to have over 782 gallons of fuel....

Just my pennies...

 

[jedi]

As for other issues, if you run a gasoline generator for 6 hours a day that gets 14 hours out of 5 gallons of fuel or 2.8 hours per gallon and expect to have a years worth of fuel you will need to have over 782 gallons of fuel....

Just my pennies...

^This!

Not sure where you live (city, subburbs, country area) but last statement is perhaps the most critical of all. Geneys (the gasoline type) are GAS HOGS and their need for gas is never ending which means you need to store it since in a short term STHF your neighbhoor, his mamma, his uncle, Joe down the street, the 7-11 kid, the thug at the end of the block, the thug's baby's mama's cousin and the rest of the city/town are going to try and

1) run to Menards/Lowes/Home Depot/etc for a generator
2) run to the gas station for gas

Depending on the STHF #2 may not be an option (too much snow, no electricity, etc..)

You don't want to be in the situtation that you are in #2 camp as well. But how you store that much fuel also becomes an issue.

If in the city/subs you may look into going the natural gas route and having a permanent generator (much more $$$) to it avoids #1 and #2 and you may not be able to store that much gas anyways due to space constraints.

Also in your budgeting determine the cost of fuel and how much you are going to store. Makes no sense buying a Geney and using your entire budget on it and then not having/buying any fuel (apart from enough to fill the tank up) as you will not be in #2 camp.

-Jedi

 

[jeremy]

Do all brands of generators need to serviced that often when in continuous use?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bigus_D]

Just a note for those trying to store sufficient gas for a genny. It goes bad relatively quickly. Also storing significantly more gas than typical may void home owners insurance and/or be a violation of your mortgage agreement.

 

[bigg cheese]

Just a note for those trying to store sufficient gas for a genny. It goes bad relatively quickly. Also storing significantly more gas than typical may void home owners insurance and/or be a violation of your mortgage agreement.

two syllables -- sta-bil. works fine

 

[bigus_D]

From the website of stable, it will only keep fuel fresh for 12 months, maybe up to 24 months if you use twice as much. Still the issue of your mortgage and insurance are not solved. And two syllable solutions for those issues? I've got one, propaine.

 

[bigg cheese]

too bad you can't spell it ..


(sorry)

 

[bigus_D]

I spell it with pain, because I just had my 1,000 gallon tank filled.

( and because I can't figure out spell check on this dumb smart phone )

 

[MAJB Retired]

Ouch!~ I understand, I used to have Propane, but now have natural gas

 

[caverjamie]

It is sacriledge to mention back-feeding a generator into your breaker panel? Most places online repeatedly stress "Don't do it!!!" when the question is asked. (Where I am living, I cannot get a transfer switch installed - which I completely agree is the desired option)

IF you turn the main breaker off, it works fine. It's just me and the wife living here, and I expained how it works to her, and about how you could never turn "that big breaker at the top there" on with the generator connected. I can look at a building on a separate meter to see if the utility power is back on or not. I use a 10gauge cord with a 20amp locking plug on both ends to feed both sides of the panel through a 20 amp breaker. The generator can only supply ~13 amps at 240v.

More on topic - I like a portable generator for versatility, combined with its decreased fuel consumption. Conserving gas is important - all we really need here is to keep our freezer and fridge cool in the summer, and to run the wood furnace in the winter. 3200watt does that just fine.

Sta-bil as mentioned earlier is what I use to store gas for longer periods. Usually use it within a year though - and it also works great for other power equipment - keeps the fuel systems clean without having to drain the fuel.

 

[jedi]

It is sacriledge to mention back-feeding a generator into your breaker panel? Most places online repeatedly stress "Don't do it!!!" when the question is asked. (Where I am living, I cannot get a transfer switch installed - which I completely agree is the desired option)

Yes and No.
Some will you for doing such a thing since it's not the "proper" way of doing this but as you pointed out in your example it's you and Mrs. and BOTH OF YOU know how it works on your system and the dangers involved in "doing it wrong" so I would not you for doing it. If it works for you it works for you!

More on topic - I like a portable generator for versatility, combined with its decreased fuel consumption. Conserving gas is important - all we really need here is to keep our freezer and fridge cool in the summer, and to run the wood furnace in the winter. 3200watt does that just fine.

Yes that is the benefit of a "portable" generator but the flip side is the storage of all that fuel.

Sta-bil as mentioned earlier is what I use to store gas for longer periods. Usually use it within a year though - and it also works great for other power equipment - keeps the fuel systems clean without having to drain the fuel.

As stated before Stab-bil can on the MAX end keep the gasoline OK for 24 months. After 18 to 20 months I would use it up and re-fill.

-Jedi

 

[jrainw]

After a bad storm two years ago we were without power for 7 days and learned some things. I had an older Coleman 6500 watt generator and it was a freaking gas hog. It ran the whole house, fridge, lights, ceiling fans. Just not the AC and that is fine with me. A friend brought me a Gillette generator, 5000 watt and it used half the fuel and performed as well as the cheap 6500 watt unit. I bought one after that. To my knowledge Gillette is the only generator made in the USA, Elkhart Indiana to be more specific. Highly recomended.

 

[Icarry2]

Some things I have experienced.

Fuel (gasoline)

As an experiment last fall I left half a tank of untreated gas in the tank on my power washer in the back of my serivce truck all winter and until the spring, approximately 6-7 months before I went to use it again. I added half a tank of new gas to the tank and it fired up on the second pull with the choke on. It is a Troy-Built unit with a Honda engine.

My father, brother and I ran a small engine repair shop for years, sold tons of Sta-Bil but never used it ourselves that much. If the engine isn't ran after the tank is treated long enough to get treated gas into the bowl then it is worse then not treating at all. I always could smell the difference in the exhaust when it was through the engine..

If a tank has a shut off valve use it... I don't recommend running an engine dry, some seals and gaskets in modern non-rebuildable carbs will dry out and then leak creating a serious problem. If your unit does not have a fuel shut off buy one and put it in the fuel line as close to the tank as you can.

Personally I only treat gasoline if the fuel is going to be sitting for more then 12 months. I do not use the last cup or so of the container, it can sometimes be "junk" that separates out of fuel. Save this fuel for things like a duel fual stove, to light fires, to "trade" in SHTF situations.. I keep a can of "old" gas to dump it into.

I rotate fuel every 3-4 months as part of my normal PM's so none of my stored fuel is older then 6-9 months old. Usually I will dump a can of gas into my personal truck or better half's car and then fill it up the same day, I treat it like the instructions say if it hits the 6 month age and put it in inventory.

Use small storage containers for fuel, for instance 5 gallon cans, so if one has an issue it isn't a 55 gallon drum of now bad gas. Some things can not and should not be used to store fuel in.. Large amounts of fuel should be kept in a flamable containment cabinet or in an isolated outbuilding. A small storage shed that costs about $500 is worth the insurance that if your house or garage catches fire that it won't explode when your fuel cashe catches fire... Use numbers or letters or something to label each container. A white grease pen will show up on the textured red plastic of most common plastic fuel cans and also on red painted metal containers. Keep a log of your fuel rotation, when it is bought, when it is treated, when you check it, etc...

Some legal eagles can rule on it but I know some places really frown on storage of more then 50 gallons in one container or locatiojn that isn't zoned farm/ag or as a fuel depo and thus controlled under EPA regs..... As mentioned your mortgae, insurance, HOA or sub division may say too bad..

Power:

Back feeding is acceptiable if a positive means of isolation is possible so that you do not back feed past your incoming main from the power company. I have seen a power company cut wires back one pole and cut down a pole at a rural residence and tell the owner for the cost of a new pole and install ($3-5,000) they will put him back on the grid. The supervisor stated it was cheaper then the fines and legal issues associated with turning the guy in.

If you have any reservations about doing thigns yourself pay a licensed and bonded contractor to retrofit your panel to accept a twist lock drop cord connection and buy a propperly sized cord if your using a portable genny. If it is a permanent install or auto switch might wanna pay for the work.

There are all kinds of resources on line that will help you size a generator for your needs. If you can afford to buy two smaller and separate your loads by critical and non-critical you have a more adaptable system. Plus two is one and one is well, one...

LED and CFL Bulbs eat much less power then incandescent and ballast fed fluorescent fixtures.

Test your system at least in the spring before thunderstorm season and fall before winter storm season and make sure it will hold things up for at least 2-3 hours. That means "run for real" use your critical appliances, furnace, water heater, pumps, lights, etc...

Breakers will work and do feed power both directions. Manufacturers will argue that the sensing will act different but a breaker will still trip on over current if power if traveling "backwards" through it..

Ground your generator as per the manufacturers recomendations. Usually there is a ground bolt on the frame. Check the connection with a meter..

Spares:

Have spares.. Spare oil, spare filters, spare fuel cans, spare fuel funnels, spare power cords, spare pull cords, spare breakers, etc etc etc...

Think about where you are going to put used oil? Some "fuel oil" furnaces will burn used motor oil.... Why throw BTU's away...

Preparations:

Have things where you can get to them in a hurry. Under the right conditions it is best to know how fast your house cools down given certain outside ambient conditions. In other words, if it's 20 deg F your house will get to a dangerous low temp in "X" hours..

I use plug in auto flashlights that come on automatically when the power they are plugged into is shut off.. I have a receptical associated with the panel in the house and in the garage so I can find the panels in the dark.

Know ahead of time which breakers are for what in your panels.. Check each receptical and light switch and record where things should be for what setup. Critical, non-critical, extranious..

Security:

I suggest that if you use a portable unit it should be securly bolted down, cabled to a structure or tree, truck, car, etc.

Cables are harder to cut then chain. Harbor frieght sells 15 foot 3/8 rubber covered cables that can be used to secure your genny.

General:

I added a small led light to my generators control panel to see in the dark the conections and breakers on the units control panel.

I also suggest an hour meter. You can find small 12 volt units that are replacements for garden tractors and other equipment. Most Generators have a 12 volt source that can be utilized to power the meter. Makes changing oil and other maintenance issues easier to track.

Keep a log. A small spiral note pad kept in a zip lock with the instruction manual in a place that you will always know where it is. Record dates and times of use, tests, maintenance, etc.

Perform oil changes on warm, not hot engines. Change the oil before you put it away after use. Fresh oil won't have as much contamination in it and will help preserve your engine. Run an engine for 5-10 minutes after you change the oil to evenly distribute the fresh oil thoughout the engine. Nothing worse then not changing it and then when you break it out in a dire situation and can't shut it down for the time it takes to do the maintenance. Thats why it is called "Preventative Maintenance" and not "Reactive Maintenance"... lol

Ok, long enough post for now... Hope someone finds this information useful..

 

[Iroquois]

If you decide to go cheap and back-feed into your breaker panel at least have the sense to buy an industrial type lock-out device and install it on your main breaker at
the top center of your panel... and use a lock!!!