Glock 2.0 - what the Gen IV should have been

[barrelmaker_2002]

A pleasure to debate you sir......

I would argue that none of the changes are purely cosmetic. Here is the original list:

- fix the trigger....
(easier to shot accurately)
- add a second strike capability to the trigger...
(easier to deal with a malfunction, especially under stress)
- add front slide serrations
(press check)
- add a rail to the compact guns
(for really small pistols this is largely cosmetic...until you add a rail mount laser at least)
- modify design to allow dis-assembly w/o pulling the trigger
(safety)
- slightly extend the length of the take down lever ends
(easier to disassemble, especially if you have smaller hands)
- make a grip plug standard or close off that section to dirt
(keeps trigger mech cleaner)
- make the trigger guard less blocky...
(the concave outward face makes re-holstering in one of my holsters more difficult it pushed down on the leather to the point where I had to get a new holster)
- undercut the trigger guard more
(lowers the bore axis - reduces muzzle flip and shot to shot recovery time)
- make the back strap adjustable
(fits a wider variety of users)

As for your muscle memory question...adding front serrations would not really effect how I shoot the gun, manipulate the controls or use the gun under stress (like in an IDPA match). However, I do like to be able to press check and I do find front serrations easier when I am doing dry fire practice.

And improving the trigger does not have to mean drastically changing its mechanics and improving a trigger actually makes learning the required muscle memory simpler, rather than harder. I find my trigger pull has to be pretty deliberate with my G19 and that slows me down a lot.

 

[Jimbo Kern]

I'm glad to see you responded so quickly.

I actually agree with you on a few of those, namely the rail for sub-compacts as well as the extension of take-down tabs. The sub-compact rail likely wouldn't add much utility, as it simply wouldn't be long enough to properly fit a huge selection of accessories, but the option to add a sub-compact weapon light would be nice. The extension tabs could be substituted at any time without any redesign or retooling.


The problem as I see it with second strike is that:
A) I have yet to see a malfunctioning gun be fixed with additional trigger pulls
B) A dud round won't go off regardless of times struck
C) Crappy ammo with hard or unreliable primers could well take more than 2 strikes to ignite, and do so OFTEN (I've had this experience with Egyptian 9mm, when both a CZ and a Sig took 3 or 4 strikes to set off every 5'th round or so)

Those three scenarios comprise virtually all the situations where a multiple strike ability would be used... and in none of them are you any better off for having that capability. If you use good ammo to begin with the chances of needing such a thing are miniscule and, even if they DO happen, a more appropriate responce to such an event is a clearance drill (as you probably won't know what the malfunction is at the time anyway... your not going to stop and LOOK are you?)

As i see it, your other points are mainly training issues, not equipment problems: clearing and double clearing the chamber before diassembly is a training issue, as are press checks - they both go back to the basic rules of gun safety; if those rules are followed no problem exists.

Also let me ask you this: You stated earlier that guns need to continually evolve. After your tweaks are made, where does it go next? The gun in question already has legendary reliability, good accuracy, and a super simple manual of arms... I don't see phazors in our holsters any time soon, so what glaring problem will come about next, that only another $550 for Glock 3.0 will solve?

Autos will hit the same wall revolvers have butted up against for the last 80 years, and no more significant changes will be made. What game changing advancements have been made to revolvers since the 30's? Full lug barrels? Security locks? Transfer Bars? Most wheel gunners look back today and see the "good old days" of decades past. Soon it shall be with autos.

 

[Joe Williams]

I must be the odd man out. Grip angle never even crosses my mind.

I believe that if you are drawing your gun correctly you are getting on that front sight right away as your are pressing out forward. If you do this correctly your sights are going to be aligned correctly no matter what gun you have.

It can't be that different can it? Look at pics of Glocks and 1911's side by side. They look similar to me.

You should be able to pick up any gun and get on target.

What if you are forced to use your gun in a situation that does not allow you to use your sights, or even press out? If you are using a gun that does not point well for you, you will not get the hits you need, and need rather desperately.

 

[TomN]

My opinion on second strike capability is that it's a gimmick. If you pull the trigger and the gun doesn't go off, you immediately do a tap-rack-bang and hopefully continue shooting. Standing there pulling the trigger numerous times can cost you precious seconds.

You want to talk about REAL Glock improvements, get rid of those godawful finger grooves.

 

[downzero]

Bob Vogel's G24 has a very heavily lightened slide. I wouldn't call his stock by any means.

The Glock 2.0 is called the M&P. It's everything the Glock wishes it could be.

 

[mvician]

The Glock 2.0 is called the M&P. It's everything the Glock wishes it could be.

No, it's what some people want the GLOCK to be. If that's what you want it to be, buy the M&P. Leave my GLOCKs as they are :-)

 

[HICKMAN]

Picked up a Gen4 G17 today. Dropped in a 3.5# connector and polished up the trigger.

Will make a great carry and Production Division gun

Glock on!

 

[byford80]

If it isnt broke dont fix it. They are simple and function everytime. Everyone copies them

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

...the option to add a sub-compact weapon light would be nice....The extension tabs could be substituted at any time without any redesign or retooling....The problem as I see it with second strike...clearing and double clearing the chamber before diassembly is a training issue....Also let me ask you this: You stated earlier that guns need to continually evolve. After your tweaks are made, where does it go next?.

I agree. Or a laser.

LEO's are often prohibited from doing this.

I could live w/o the second strike. But a non-gun person cop might freeze up and keep trying the trigger if they get a misfire.

Anything that makes training simpler makes sense and makes safer.

I agree that evolution will have to stop at some point, but Glock has a long way to go.

...and their web site is terrible, but that is another thread.