Gillette: Men Are Toxic

[ATOMonkey]

If you need an omnipotent "higher power" to threaten you with a lake of fire in order to be a good person, then you are a horrible person at your core. Some of us manage to avoid raping, robbing, killing and voting for Democrats even without a fairy tale to guide us. You'd probably be amazed if you knew how people that you probably already respect really feel about magic apples and talking snakes.

Just a point of order, the lake of fire is only for those who refuse to accept that God is Lord at the last judgment. It doesn't have anything to do with being a good person. Being "good" is just a natural consequence of being in a relationship with your Savior.

Everyone is born with the innate knowledge of right and wrong. We call it a conscience. I am not amazed that some very good people choose not to accept the gift. I spend a lot of time with those people for just that reason.

If you knew the secret to immortality, would you hide it or share it?

Now, intellectually, post-modernism says that everything is relative. What is good for you is good for you and what is good for me is good for me. And that is fine I suppose, if people can live in a bubble, but when they meet other people, it becomes a bit of a challenge. Which is why it is helpful to have a higher power that gives guidance on what is right and what is wrong, and what will lead to joy and what will lead to despair. We have already seen the effects of post-modern thinking as it slowly makes it way through the culture. Whether you are Christian or not, the consequences of post-modernism are being felt by everyone.

For instance in this thread. What is masculine? Well, it is whatever I want it to be. What is toxic masculinity? Simple, it is everything that I don't like about masculinity. How much should people be taxed? What government programs should we have? Should parents be allowed to reassign gender at birth? Should people be allowed to have guns? Should people be allowed to own property? etc. etc. etc. Without a guidepost culture becomes "anything goes."

 

[eldirector]

Social/Cultural constructs are what separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

The funny/ironic part of all this: for all of our "higher intelligence", we seem to muck up the natural order of things pretty regularly. The rest of the animal kingdom doesn't seem to have an issue with "toxic masculinity". Gender roles are pretty well understood within any species. Us humans think we know better, with hilariously horrible results.

 

[BugI02]

I left this thread for a while, but now I see you're talking about me...

I am an only child and was raised by a single mother. What do you want to know?

I guess who affected your understanding of what it means to be a man (which I hold to be different from what it means to be a responsible adult) more growing up, your Mom and other female friends and relatives or men who were friends and relatives and interacted with you during that same interval

 

[traderdan]

You are very fortunate to be part of a culture that was founded upon the values spoken of...Go exist in a culture that has not this foundation.

 

[ATOMonkey]

It's important to remember that neither Jesus nor the Hebrews before Him created morality, and billions of people have lived wholesome, fulfilling lives with that absence.

Christianity and Judaism make up about 33% of ideology worldwide. Islam is another 24%. Buddhism is about 10%, Hindu 15%, and about 15% Communist. Prior to that we had Shinto, Daoism, Greek Pantheism, Roman Pantheism, Norse Pantheism, Native American Pantheism, etc etc. The point is that the world has never been without some kind of rigid ideology that told people how to live.

So, while Judaism is about 5,000 years old, there have always been ideologies that have dominated culture, and there always will be.

Post-Modern ideology is neither rigid, nor is it widely accepted, which means that it will be replaced by a more rigid ideology.

Historically, the Christian ideology, which promotes freedom, education, equality, justice, and morality, has been a boon to Western society.

 

[HoughMade]

I want to go on record that I had nothing to do with this topic taking this turn. I'm as surprised at this as you are.

The point I tried to make above is that whether a "social construct" or decreed from on high, there are certain masculine and feminine characteristics. In proper context and exercised within basic morality (no matter where from), these are important and positive for our society.

 

[traderdan]

Hard to argue with Praegar U

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/2193637650679079/?t=15

 

[BugI02]

If you need an omnipotent "higher power" to threaten you with a lake of fire in order to be a good person, then you are a horrible person at your core. Some of us manage to avoid raping, robbing, killing and voting for Democrats even without a fairy tale to guide us. You'd probably be amazed if you knew how people that you probably already respect really feel about magic apples and talking snakes.

I expect that the obverse is equally true, my friend

 

[BugI02]

You might be surprised to find that I agree...to a point. I do disagree with your assessment of the necessity of Judeo-Christian values specifically to the success (moral, or otherwise) of a society, but I fully agree that it is virtuous to hold *something* above yourself. Religion does fit nicely, but I don't think it's the only device that can fit to serve the purpose. For instance, a personal dedication to service can provide the same effect as a dedication to religion. It's important to remember that neither Jesus nor the Hebrews before Him created morality, and billions of people have lived wholesome, fulfilling lives with that absence.

The problem I have with the ad is sincerity. P&G is pretty goods at making soap, but pretty awful at behaving humanely when profits are on the line. I might respond better to an ad campaign that focused on the actions P&G are taking to make this world a better place for the people that inhabit it...how they have changed their own behavior to make ours a better world. Instead they tell me that they want a better world, but it's up to me to provide it for them. That turns me off to whatever the underlying message may be.

Ah, yes. The difference between leadership and mere advocacy, I have seen it

 

[jagee]

I guess who affected your understanding of what it means to be a man (which I hold to be different from what it means to be a responsible adult) more growing up, your Mom and other female friends and relatives or men who were friends and relatives and interacted with you during that same interval

I guess that depends on "what it means to be a man."

If we are talking holding doors open for women, not letting them walk on the side of the sidewalk close to the street, etc...then I honestly don't know who influenced me on that stuff. My grandpa, probably, but I dont remember any instruction along the lines of "this is what men do..."

If we are talking "women's work" vs "men's work" like doing laundry vs cutting the grass, well then my mom influenced me on that because I do my own laundry and dishes.

 

[jagee]

...oh, and I also put the toilet seat (and lid) down after I pee. So I'm not a "typically man" in that regard.

 

[indiucky]

Ah, yes. The difference between leadership and mere advocacy, I have seen it

PaulMc may not have been my favorite Beatle but PaulF (and Jamil) are my favorite Agnostic/Atheist's......

 

[indiucky]

...oh, and I also put the toilet seat (and lid) down after I pee. So I'm not a "typically man" in that regard.

[video=youtube;T7vL71milxg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7vL71milxg[/video]

 

[actaeon277]

I'm done with Gillette. Retired my Gillette Fusion yesterday.

This morning's shave with a Harry's razor was just as good, and a fair bit cheaper.

Bye, bye Gillette.

From 70% U.S. market share 10 years ago, to 50% last year - I foresee even lower numbers in your future.

Harry's is in the same boat
Harry's on Twitter: "Today is International Men?s Day. Believe it or not, that?s a thing. Now more than ever, being a man demands introspection, humility, and optimism. To get to a better tomorrow, we need to take a look at today, and at the misguide

 

[printcraft]

 

[HoughMade]

Harry's is in the same boat...

Kinda, sorta. Harry's was vague, Gillette was kind enough to explain their position thoroughly.

Like I said- they're responding to research about who is making the razor buying decisions.

There is no social justice belief system. Only a deep and abiding faith in $$$.

 

[BugI02]

I guess that depends on "what it means to be a man."

If we are talking holding doors open for women, not letting them walk on the side of the sidewalk close to the street, etc...then I honestly don't know who influenced me on that stuff. My grandpa, probably, but I dont remember any instruction along the lines of "this is what men do..."

If we are talking "women's work" vs "men's work" like doing laundry vs cutting the grass, well then my mom influenced me on that because I do my own laundry and dishes.

I guess I'm thinking more of the Furies that inhabit anything that can be called a man, for good or ill. The capacity for violence, anger that perhaps only a redhead could come close to comprehending, territoriality, sexuality, face or the desire for respect

In what I think of as a true man, these are tempered with compassion, control, a sense of proportion, a sense of purpose, a commitment to honor and honorability. We likely wont agree on the parameters but if there is any overlap, from whence did the guidance to a certain attitude about when and how to harness these capabilities or when loose them mostly come

Many of us hone our capabilities to be as deadly as we can be when we need to be, but we hope to never need to go there and channel these capabilities to protect ourselves and those that matter to us exclusively

 

[Ziggidy]

I suggest that some may be interested in reading Wild at Heart by Eldridge.




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[BugI02]

Violence is Golden ? Jack Donovan

 

[actaeon277]

Violence is Golden ? Jack Donovan

Starship Troopers said the same thing, faster. And yes, the book was better.