Gillette: Men Are Toxic

[BugI02]

Then call out the folks doing the bad behavior. It would be wrong to lay blame at the feet of all women for single-motherhood. There are lots of things to blame for it. Being a woman is far down on that list.

[Just as it would be wrong to absolve all women of all blame when some obviously freely chose that state]

I guess a broader way of saying it. There is no such thing as societal problems. There are individual problems which bubble up to affect large numbers of people in a society. You can't solve a collective problem. A collective is just an aggregate abstract construct fabricated to conceptualize all the individual constituents. It's still individuals. You may be able to apply a broad solution which fixes the individual constituents broadly.

[The map is not the territory, the word is not the thing. Reality is far more complex than our description of it, and solutions based on generalities often cause more problems than they solve]

For example, sexual assault. Want to fix that to the extent possible? Break down and categorize all the factors that cause people to sexually abuse other people. Rank-order them, and then try to eliminate each factor by priority. Hint: the solution will not be to blame masculinity for it and emasculate men, because masculinity is not at fault.

D'accord

 

[Route 45]

So, just to be clear, you are accusing me of sexual harassment and assault because I publicly state that men should not do those things?

Yeah, okay buddy.

Now who is protesting too much?

Didn't accuse you of anything. I said "some people." Seems to have struck a nerve.

If the shoe fits...

 

[indiucky]

 

[indiucky]

 

[indiucky]

 

[indiucky]

 

[jamil]

So, just to be clear, you are accusing me of sexual harassment and assault because I publicly state that men should not do those things?

Yeah, okay buddy.

Now who is protesting too much?

Sounds a whole like like the infamous, "so you're saying..."

I think you're both are saying the other is saying things not said.

 

[jamil]

I think it may be more accurate if a definition of "god" is given along with the statement. If god is a concept which explains existence, then yeah, I would agree. Evolution could be the god of atheists. If God is as in the depiction of religions, Jesus, for example, then no. There is no direct analog to Jesus in atheism. I've heard Peterson's arguments about this and he kinda means it in both contexts. So I agree with him in the former context, but not in the latter.

 

[indiucky]

I think it may be more accurate if a definition of "god" is given along with the statement. If god is a concept which explains existence, then yeah, I would agree. Evolution could be the god of atheists. If God is as in the depiction of religions, Jesus, for example, then no. There is no direct analog to Jesus in atheism. I've heard Peterson's arguments about this and he kinda means it in both contexts. So I agree with him in the former context, but not in the latter.

I'll find that information for you....Peterson's usual response is "I behave as if God exists" when asked...Him and Sam Harris's discussion on the subject in Vancouver is fascinating...Sam Harris is the cream of the crop IMHO and one of the few Atheist's I've seen hold their own with William Lane Craig, who even Hitchens would debate with a bit of nerves (his words)....I always look at you and PaulF as guys who don't believe but behave as if the message and lessons have worth and value...(I may be wrong in that assessment but that's the feel I've gotten over the years of talking to you and PaulF on here and in person..I may be wrong though)....

[video=youtube;h1oaSt60b0o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1oaSt60b0o[/video]

[video=youtube;m0-oC_49fq4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0-oC_49fq4[/video]

[video=youtube;oq6ntly6w8k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq6ntly6w8k[/video]

Here's the one I think....As always with all due respect.....

[video=youtube;fGoRFbNg0RU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGoRFbNg0RU[/video]

Here's the full video...Ignore the Atheist's hair....

[video=youtube;syP-OtdCIho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syP-OtdCIho&t=506s[/video]

Peterson refers to God as the "Logos".....

 

[indiucky]

One more brother.....

[video=youtube;n9wQ0f7PxLk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9wQ0f7PxLk[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

The Bee Explains: Who Is Jordan Peterson?

Jordan Peterson Granted Honorary Christian Status

 

[JettaKnight]

Gillette Now Including Free Manly Side Bag With Every Purchase

 

[jamil]

I'll find that information for you....Peterson's usual response is "I behave as if God exists" when asked...Him and Sam Harris's discussion on the subject in Vancouver is fascinating...Sam Harris is the cream of the crop IMHO and one of the few Atheist's I've seen hold their own with William Lane Craig, who even Hitchens would debate with a bit of nerves (his words)....I always look at you and PaulF as guys who don't believe but behave as if the message and lessons have worth and value...(I may be wrong in that assessment but that's the feel I've gotten over the years of talking to you and PaulF on here and in person..I may be wrong though)....

Here's the one I think....As always with all due respect.....

Here's the full video...Ignore the Atheist's hair....

Peterson refers to God as the "Logos".....

I've seen all those videos. You're right, the Sam Harris / Peterson series of videos are fascinating. It is a very good example of the dialectic method I mentioned elsewhere. Not all differences were resolved, but resolved good enough to satisfy me about where I stand with it. I can agree to disagree with both Sam and Jordan on various points.

I'm not going to speak for Paul but you're right that I do respect the values of Christianity as taught in the NT. I don't necessarily respect preachers' interpretations of them. My view of Christianity is that the world became livable for the greatest portion of humans in history because of Christianity, not despite it. It brought out many true concepts which possibly may have evolved without it, but certainly evolved through it. So there's that.

 

[indiucky]

The Bee Explains: Who Is Jordan Peterson?

Jordan Peterson Granted Honorary Christian Status

True story!!!!! I cleaned up "my room" or as my wife calls it "the museum" Five years worth of clothes I wear daily piled on two chairs, forty years worth of gun/history/knife periodicals piled on the floor...Every pair of shoes I've ever owned, wore out suits, clothes, T shirts, surplus gear, gun boxes, etc....I filled up FOURTEEN (and counting) contractor garbage bags the past month...My wife noticed, kept complimenting me, bought me four pair of new Levi's, three Nike hoodies, etc....And then the other day looked at me and said, "It's because Jordan Peterson told you to clean up your room isn't it?"

"No!!! That's just....Well....He MAY have inspired me to...."

Do you remember how us on INGO discovered Jordan Peterson? It was a couple of years ago when the gender pronoun thing came up in Canada and someone started a thread, "Things are getting weird up in Canada" and it was him debating over bill C 16....I watched that and then saw he had posted all of his lectures on Youtube to sort of protect himself from the charges that were sure to come against him...Before that he was a no name professor up north....

And then this happened.....



Why are his fans mostly male?

This is actually untrue if you take into account the millions of women who’ve discovered in the last month that he is the reason their husbands and sons are now insisting on keeping their rooms clean.

 

[JettaKnight]

Why haven't I seen that photo till now?! I just forwarded straight to the missus - she'll be tickled.


Jordan Peterson Convinces Pile Of Clean Laundry To Sort Itself Out

 

[indiucky]

My view of Christianity is that the world became livable for the greatest portion of humans in history because of Christianity, not despite it. It brought out many true concepts which possibly may have evolved without it, but certainly evolved through it. So there's that.

Nietzsche said that Christianity's insistence on the truth led to science but then consequently led to it's waning popularity in the world...

I am glad I was able to accurately (reasonably) state your thoughts on the subject...We've had some good talks over the years and I enjoy them...When you're here it's one of the few times I get pissed if someone comes in wanting to buy something.....

"Dude you don't want that gun it sucks...Can't you see me and this dude here are discussing Jung, the Logos, and Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness????"

 

[indiucky]

Why haven't I seen that photo till now?! I just forwarded straight to the missus - she'll be tickled.

If I ever get a back tattoo (or any tattoo) that pic will be it....

 

[Snapdragon]

I just watched the video and I read the comments.

I guess I'm confused. Either most of you guys haven't watched the video or you don't actually mean what you say. I know a lot of you get triggered by any new speak, like toxic masculinity, but if you watched the video, you can see what behaviors they were advocating. In the video, we see:

Bad:
- Pack of larger kids chases down and bullying a younger kid
- A kid receiving so-called "cyber-bullying" by being texted hateful things
- Several examples of men groping women or wolf-whistling/cat calling, while other guys laughed
- Older CEO/Boardroom type guy belittling the contribution of the one female employee
- Two kids beating the ever living snot out of each other, while negligent dads barbecue

Good:

- Guy calls out frat-type guys at a pool party for groping at women
- Older guy stepping in between two teenagers who were about to fight and getting them to shake hands
- Friend calls out his buddy for cat-calling a woman on the street
- One of the aforementioned barbequeuing dads stops the two kids from beating each other
- Onlooker stops the pack of kids from hurting the smaller one

So, from those examples, here is what I'm seeing in the ad as being promoted as positive masculinity:

1. Standing up for others, particularly those who are weaker
2. Respecting women, both on the street and as co-workers
3. Teaching children that the first recourse to a dispute isn't violence

What I don't see:

1. P*ssy Hats
2. Anything to do with voting Democrat
3. Anything to do with Socialism
4. Anything to do with weakening the status of men.

I don't see anything advocated there that you wouldn't see being taught for decades in the Boy Scouts, or in Church groups, etc. In fact, I bet I could travel back in time, to the heyday of manly men (you know, the 1950's) and give them the points of above, and they would absolutely agree with them (except maybe respecting women as co-workers, as that's a bit more modern).

So what are you all *****ing and moaning about? Cause if you can honestly say you haven't seen the bad behaviors the video is calling out going on around you, you are either living an extremely sheltered existence, or you are lying and are probably part of the problem.

I mean, when a guy running for President can brag on an open mic about how he can get any woman he wants and just grab them by the genitalia, who has had numerous affairs (including ones with huge payoffs) can get elected President, it would seem to me that a good chunk of our country tacitly condones that type of behavior. And it's not like that's new by any means. Look at Clinton, who was an accused rapist and certainly a sexual harasser. Or how many senators and reps get caught doing similar things.

And people are getting upset that Gillette made a video about toxic masculinity? Jeez.

I don't see what the fuss is about either. All I see is a bunch of snowflakes getting offended over a commercial with several valid messages. As I said on another forum earlier, if the shoe does not fit, then just move along. If it does, then lace that b*tch up and be a better man.

 

[indiucky]

I don't see what the fuss is about either. All I see is a bunch of snowflakes getting offended over a commercial with several valid messages. As I said on another forum earlier, if the shoe does not fit, then just move along. If it does, then lace that b*tch up and be a better man.

The problem I saw with it is that I've not seen any men behaving that way (the poor behavior) ever that I can recall.....I've never seen a man cat call except on TV in a drama and it's usually in B&W and the dude's got on a fedora and the woman is smiling back at him.....If they would have said the commercial is a fictional drama of something that never happens I would not have complained...

IMHO and with all due respect Madame Wheel Gun Heroine......

 

[jamil]

Nietzsche said that Christianity's insistence on the truth led to science but then consequently led to it's waning popularity in the world...

I am glad I was able to accurately (reasonably) state your thoughts on the subject...We've had some good talks over the years and I enjoy them...When you're here it's one of the few times I get pissed if someone comes in wanting to buy something.....

"Dude you don't want that gun it sucks...Can't you see me and this dude here are discussing Jung, the Logos, and Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness????"

I need to get down to the shop sometime soon. I’ve been working long hours the last few months. Haven’t even had much range time lately.