Freedom on trial in Netherlands

[88GT]

Freedom on trial in Netherlands **UPDATE: FREEDOM WINS**

UPDATE: Wilders acquitted. Link in post 16.


Blog: Geert Wilders Closing Remarks at His Kafkaesque Trial

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I fear we are not that far from similar proceedings within our own borders. I also fear the similarities these proceedings have with the Salem witch trials will not stop at baseless accusations and fabricated evidence. Conviction is almost guaranteed for the very reason charges were brought.

Regardless, the dude has a pair the size of beach balls.

 

[ViperJock]

Interesting Post 88GT. It would seem that some people DO "get it." It would also seem that the people in charge prefer to ignore "it" and get annoyed when the first group bring "it" up. Thanks for the post.

 

[spencer rifle]

An earlier statement by the prosecution was telling (I'm trying to quote it from memory):
"It is irrelevant that Mr. Wilder's witnesses might prove the truth of his observations. What is relevant is that his observations are illegal."

Apparently the truth is no defense.

 

[KG1]

I like your style here 88GT. Not only do you leave the state, you go out of the country I also like Geert Wilders style to lay it out like it is and d*mn the consequences.

 

[RockofStrength]

And that is how you do it. Defend yourself and more importantly your nation's freedoms with all the intelligence, eloquence and heart you can muster and let the consequences be what they may.

 

[96firephoenix]

can anyone find audio of that speech in Dutch without English dubbing? Dutch sounds pretty awesome, and I want to hear the emotion in his voice.

 

[rambone]

Speech should not be criminalized.

Anti-Islam lawmaker demands his acquittal

 

[ghunter]

In the next 20-30 years, more and more "native europeans" will come here to get away from the impoverished dictatorships that their nations are now destined to become.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

A couple of points about Geert Wilders

1) He absolutely has the right to say what he pleases. Any move to fine him or put him in jail will only make his cause stronger. The censorship displayed by the Dutch system here is extraordinary - and not in a good way.

2) I am no fan of Islam - many of the points that he makes are well founded and correct.

3) I am concerned, however, by his single-minded focus on this one topic (Islam). I agree that it's a legitimate issue for discussion - but it's not the ONLY issue for discussion. It concerns me that he seems to be "against so much and for so little". My point on that is this - once he has defeated his enemy - Islamists - then who or what is next? I don't say this to impugn him, just that history has shown that when people ride a single issue (typically against a group of people) - then they have nowhere to go when that enemy is conquered. Thus far he's been careful to keep it within strict guidelines -I fear that he may not in the future.

4) I have concerns about the long term direction of his message. It has the ability to turn the corner and become fascist in a heartbeat. PLEASE DO NOT MISTAKE ME ON THIS - it remains a fact that he has EVERY right to say it. No question that he should be acquitted. Indeed his trial makes a sham of Dutch "freedom".

5) I will continue to watch him and his group, as I fear that it would be all too easy for them to take a hard right turn and go away from the freedom which they now RIGHTLY ask for.

 

[chraland51]

We need many, many more of guys like Mr. Wilders to open up the eyes of this nation to what is slowly happening.

 

[Westside]

that was a well presented speech and persuasive argument. I hope this works out the best for him. Does anyone know if the trial has concluded and what the results were.

 

[rambone]

3) I am concerned, however, by his single-minded focus on this one topic (Islam). I agree that it's a legitimate issue for discussion - but it's not the ONLY issue for discussion. It concerns me that he seems to be "against so much and for so little". My point on that is this - once he has defeated his enemy - Islamists - then who or what is next? I don't say this to impugn him, just that history has shown that when people ride a single issue (typically against a group of people) - then they have nowhere to go when that enemy is conquered. Thus far he's been careful to keep it within strict guidelines -I fear that he may not in the future.

4) I have concerns about the long term direction of his message. It has the ability to turn the corner and become fascist in a heartbeat. PLEASE DO NOT MISTAKE ME ON THIS - it remains a fact that he has EVERY right to say it. No question that he should be acquitted. Indeed his trial makes a sham of Dutch "freedom".

I agree with you. He's the kind of politician who would ban burqas and mosques and create a muslim registration and all of that other nonsense. You can't protect freedom by banning everything that scares you.

 

[dross]

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four.

 

[88GT]

A couple of points about Geert Wilders

3) I am concerned, however, by his single-minded focus on this one topic (Islam). I agree that it's a legitimate issue for discussion - but it's not the ONLY issue for discussion. It concerns me that he seems to be "against so much and for so little". My point on that is this - once he has defeated his enemy - Islamists - then who or what is next? I don't say this to impugn him, just that history has shown that when people ride a single issue (typically against a group of people) - then they have nowhere to go when that enemy is conquered. Thus far he's been careful to keep it within strict guidelines -I fear that he may not in the future.

Relative to his speech, though, that is the only reason he's on trial. For speaking out against Islam. Nothing more. It doesn't make sense to introduce irrelevant facts/issues.

Besides, he's repeatedly stated he has nothing against the practitioners of Islam, only the ideology. Kinda the same way I have no beef with tree huggers, only their ideology that takes away my 400hp internal combustion engine and forces me to creep about in a road puck that goes just slightly faster than a Model T.

To the bolded: on what do you base you observation? I'm not calling it into question, just curious.

that was a well presented speech and persuasive argument. I hope this works out the best for him. Does anyone know if the trial has concluded and what the results were.

That was his closing argument for the trial. I'm sure his lawyers gave a legal version, but it would seem the Dutch system allows for the defendant to plea on his own behalf too. IIRC, the verdict will be rendered June 23. Stay tuned...

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

88GT -

I just did a quick google of some of his (and supporter's) sites. He seems careful to point out that his beef is with part of Islam that wants to invoke Sharia law, inflict it on others, etc. NOT with Muslims in general. That's where it's VERY easy to cross the line. It can go from that to "round all Muslims up and put them in camps" in a New York minute... and history proves this out.

Read the take that this guy had... I found it to be similar to my own concerns. He's apparently one of the bigtime supporters of Wilders' right to say stuff - but he's concerned as well...
Defend Geert Wilders

No question that Wilders' defense of hisfreedom of speech is brilliant.

 

[88GT]

Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech | Reuters

UPDATE: Freedom wins, sort of. Maybe more like "temporarily" too. The idea that they can appeal to the UN and that minorities are suffering discrimination from the mere act of the spoken word of a single man is still uncharted waters, so this very well could simply be a stay of execution for Lady Liberty.

Still, I'm glad to see that Wilders will walk.

 

[Phil502]

I am sure he will be welcomed and congratulated with an invite to the Whitehouse.