For those wary about OC

[bullet]

I have not ever or will ever open carry. But I could careless if someone else does.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I have not ever or will ever open carry. But I could careless if someone else does.

Thanks for not backing the "only CC, OC is evil" bunch. I rarely CC, but I couldn't care less if anyone else does. Carry what you want, how you want, just know how to use it.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I'd like to see it, too.

Wait, I did! And it said that an exception to the law was a lawfully carried firearm for a lawful purpose. What about my EDC is unlawful?

Also, Federal law dictates that a member of the Armed Forces, Reserve or National Guard, while on duty, is not prohibited from carrying a firearm into a federal building.

They still throw a stink about it. Every year, my unit has a family day. Last year, we went bowling. I ended up educating my chain of command on OC. My Platoon Sergeant got on my ass about it, and I simply told him what the law was. He had a LTCH, and never heard of that.

Later, the 1st Sergeant was talking to me at lunch, and he agreed with me, told me that the PLT SGT was out of line talking to me like that.

Our Admin was interested in it, because he also didn't know that you could OC.

Shoot, our Commander was talking to me while I was OCing, and he didn't seem to mind.

Just can't do it in the Reserve Center, even though Federal law says I can.

It is a very debated topic and the vagaries of the law compared the policy of the USPS. Combine to lead me to believe that it is much more for appearance sake than a law with teeth to be enforced. It would be completely unconstitutional for the Federal government to restrict our Right to Bear Arms anyway!

 

[nomadicmutt]

The weirdest thing is that the USPS isn't actually a government entity. It's a private company. Oh, but wait. It is ALSO a government agency. Somehow...

It's all really weird, and it's no wonder things like carry laws are also confusing around the post office...

Classification: The United States Postal Service (USPS). Is it government agency or a private business? It's both.

 

[mrortega]

Tastes Great. Less Filling.

 

[doublesharp]

Personally I work on a strict need-to-know basis on all information.

I don't open carry because if for some unlikely event I need to use mine I want the element of surprise. I don't put stickers on my truck, I don't wear gun logo t shirts, I do my very best to keep my carry concealed but you can make book on one thing - I'm always carrying.

The way someone else chooses to carry is none of my business.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Mind posting the law that says it is illegal?

Not at all.

(l) Weapons and explosives . Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

I'd like to see it, too.

Wait, I did! And it said that an exception to the law was a lawfully carried firearm for a lawful purpose. What about my EDC is unlawful?

Also, Federal law dictates that a member of the Armed Forces, Reserve or National Guard, while on duty, is not prohibited from carrying a firearm into a federal building.

They still throw a stink about it. Every year, my unit has a family day. Last year, we went bowling. I ended up educating my chain of command on OC. My Platoon Sergeant got on my ass about it, and I simply told him what the law was. He had a LTCH, and never heard of that.

Later, the 1st Sergeant was talking to me at lunch, and he agreed with me, told me that the PLT SGT was out of line talking to me like that.

Our Admin was interested in it, because he also didn't know that you could OC.

Shoot, our Commander was talking to me while I was OCing, and he didn't seem to mind.

Just can't do it in the Reserve Center, even though Federal law says I can.

No exception for lawful reasons, only official purposes. I'm pretty sure they only consider official purposes to be things like mailing firearms, postal inspector carry, armed security, etc.

No exception for military either (or LEO for that matter). The law you quoted allowing military wouldn't apply notice the "notwithstanding any other law part"

It is a very debated topic and the vagaries of the law compared the policy of the USPS. Combine to lead me to believe that it is much more for appearance sake than a law with teeth to be enforced. It would be completely unconstitutional for the Federal government to restrict our Right to Bear Arms anyway!

Yes it is unconstitutional, but when has that ever stopped the feds?
And for teeth, fines and up to 30 days in jail.

(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and regulations in this section while on property under the charge and control of the Postal Service is subject to a fine as provided in 18 U.S.C. 3571 or imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both.

But hopefully we'll be getting this fixed soon. There is a ongoing lawsuit regarding this.
Colorado couple's lawsuit over post office gun ban is allowed to proceed - The Denver Post

 

[CPT Nervous]

Personally I work on a strict need-to-know basis on all information.

I don't open carry because if for some unlikely event I need to use mine I want the element of surprise. I don't put stickers on my truck, I don't wear gun logo t shirts, I do my very best to keep my carry concealed but you can make book on one thing - I'm always carrying.

The way someone else chooses to carry is none of my business.

Here we go again with the "element of surprise."

These are the stickers I have on my truck; NRA, Gadsden flag, "Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot. Don't worry, it'll have him back in 2013", "Sometimes war is the only answer", "I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than go to church with Obama", "Buck Ofama", "NOPE", "I hate when I wake up and Obama is still president" and "Insured by Sig Sauer"

I also OC, duh.

Think people mess with me? People who don't share my views seem to avoid me.

As for criminals attacking me, I've driven this truck to Detroit and OCed there. Same as here. If I'm okay in Detroit, I think South Bend is fine.

This whole element of surprise thing is hilarious. Not that I'm knocking your decision to CC, just that EOS is negligible. Not trying to start a Zimmerman/Martin discussion, but did it help him any?

 

[noverusn]

OC post that WILL change some people's mind...

Greetings,

Thought I'd share an article (linked) that definitely made up my mind to OC. However, I also CC when I carry a backup and/or when I don't want to leave the 2nd pistol in the car (i.e. oil changes). I also CC when I'd rather not test whether or not I can carry at all (i.e. they don't need to know because what they don't know won't hurt them - unless they're bad guys).

The Open Carry Argument

Most likely people will have read or at least heard of the "Mainsail Open Carry Argument". It's a very good read, and he doesn't try to convert anyone, just very logically and methodically states why HE does so.

Perhaps it's the engineer in me, but I can't find any logic issues with his post.

Enjoy!

Cheers!

 

[Bunnykid68]

Greetings,

Thought I'd share an article (linked) that definitely made up my mind to OC. However, I also CC when I carry a backup and/or when I don't want to leave the 2nd pistol in the car (i.e. oil changes). I also CC when I'd rather not test whether or not I can carry at all (i.e. they don't need to know because what they don't know won't hurt them - unless they're bad guys).

The Open Carry Argument

Most likely people will have read or at least heard of the "Mainsail Open Carry Argument". It's a very good read, and he doesn't try to convert anyone, just very logically and methodically states why HE does so.

Perhaps it's the engineer in me, but I can't find any logic issues with his post.

Enjoy!

Cheers!

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/71996-the_open_carry_argument.html

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Timjobillybob, the Department of Homeland security actually defined 'Official purposes' in federal law as entering a federal facility. So anytime you visit a post office, you ARE on 'official purposes.'

REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CPT Nervous]

"I am not aware of any army that teaches using surprise as a defense against attack. No squad of soldiers goes on patrol with their weapons hidden so that they can ‘surprise’ the enemy should they walk into an ambush."

Brilliant. It really is. My point exactly. Surprise does not deter attack.

But...

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Timjobillybob, the Department of Homeland security actually defined 'Official purposes' in federal law as entering a federal facility. So anytime you visit a post office, you ARE on 'official purposes.'

REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is in regard to showing ID, and where you have to have a real ID to enter. From that link.

The Secretary of Homeland Security has currently defined "official purposes" as presenting state driver's licenses and identification cards for boarding commercially operated airline flights and entering federal buildings and nuclear power plants.

Also there is the question of whether or not a P.O. is a federal building.

I know that at least one attorney on here agrees with my interpretation of official business, mainly because I got it from him on this site.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Drinkin COOL-Aid!

But I like Kool Aid.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

That is in regard to showing ID, and where you have to have a real ID to enter. From that link.


Also there is the question of whether or not a P.O. is a federal building.

I know that at least one attorney on here agrees with my interpretation of official business, mainly because I got it from him on this site.

It does not matter that they used it in regards to ID, the term now has a definition in federal law and that is what it means.

As far as a Post Office being a federal building, the definition of federal building is a place where federal employees are and postal workers ARE federal employees. The USPS is one of the very few branches that are specifically listed in the US Constitution.

 

[iChokePeople]

"I am not aware of any army that teaches using surprise as a defense against attack. No squad of soldiers goes on patrol with their weapons hidden so that they can ‘surprise’ the enemy should they walk into an ambush."

Brilliant. It really is. My point exactly. Surprise does not deter attack.

Apples, you clearly do not look or taste like oranges, so you are wrong and probably not even fruit.

Both sides use some pretty ridiculous arguments and comparisons. This is one of them. Saying that surprise is not taught as a defense is idiotic. Implying that 'armies' do not employ or value surprise is beyond ignorant. And the idea that we're using an AMBUSH scenario as proof that the element of surprise isn't important is PARTICULARLY rich.

 

[findingZzero]

Personally I work on a strict need-to-know basis on all information.

I don't open carry because if for some unlikely event I need to use mine I want the element of surprise. I don't put stickers on my truck, I don't wear gun logo t shirts, I do my very best to keep my carry concealed but you can make book on one thing - I'm always carrying.

The way someone else chooses to carry is none of my business.

YES! THIS! rep2U

 

[jgreiner]

Oh golly gee. I'm so glad I read this post. It's totally changed my mind.

Nothing wrong with OCing, as long as it isn't a Glock. Doing it with a Glock is a bit like Roseanne Barr walking around in a string bikini.

 

[findingZzero]

You'll get more negative reaction to OC HERE on INGO than you ever will in real life.... just sayin'.

Not surprising. If I see a guy with a gun, I make it a point of not giving him SH*T. If I see a gal with a gun, willy does a pole vault. I just made that up and don't know what it means or why it happens.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Not surprising. If I see a guy with a gun, I make it a point of not giving him SH*T. If I see a gal with a gun, willy does a pole vault. I just made that up and don't know what it means or why it happens.

Never in the history of INGO has there been a poster spouting more useless gibberish than you. None of it even makes any sense, let alone useful and never funny.