For the Ayn Rand lovers

[Arthur Dent]

Ayn Rand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thought you may enjoy the little bit about her later years in life.

"A heavy smoker, Rand underwent surgery for lung cancer in 1974. Although she had long opposed government assistance programs, she eventually accepted Social Security and Medicare payments for herself, under the assumed name of "Ann O'Connor", and her husband as well"

 

[hornadylnl]

That somehow changes the truth that 2+2=4?

If you think this somehow invalidates her message, you should try reading Mises. If she was a hypocrite, she's a hypocrite. Still don't change the truth in the message.

 

[Bond 281]

You know she also didn't believe in income tax but she still paid it. What a hypocrite.

 

[dross]

Accepting medicare and SS does not make you a hypocrite, whether you believe in the programs or not.

 

[rambone]

Was she forced to pay taxes for those programs or not?

 

[SKSnut]

 

[Leadeye]

I have to wonder how the new movie about Atlas Shrugged will be recieved and how much "dramatic license" will be taken.

 

[Expat]

The Ayn Rand Institute: Ayn Rand's Q & A on Libertarianism

Q: Why don’t you approve of the Libertarians, thousands of whom are loyal readers of your works? [FHF: “The Age of Mediocrity,” 1981]

AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.

 

[nawainwright]

Don't you know that if you ever fail on any bit of your principle, then you're entire life, and body of work, and ideas, and DNA are corrupted and not worth ever mentioning again....

Maybe we should look at the fact that since she was forced to pay those taxes, and social security, and medicaid, and medicare premiums, she wasn't able to use the money herself to pay for her own care....SHOCKING IDEA!! Clearly she, just like us, should pay for everyone else including ourselves and be thankful for the opportunity to give Big Daddy Sugar a slice of our pie.

 

[PaulJF]

Morality requires a baseline in order to judge it. Objectivism at its core is it's own baseline. I enjoy Ayn Rand and the Libertarian ideal, and they are often at odds with each other.

 

[melensdad]

Although she had long opposed government assistance programs, she eventually accepted Social Security and Medicare payments for herself, under the assumed name of "Ann O'Connor", and her husband as well"

OK, so she paid the FICA tax (social security) via a mandatory payroll deduction and she paid the medicar tax, again, via a mandatory payroll deduction.

And then she accepted her money back from the government that they forcefully took from her against her will.

And now some of you are claiming she is a hypocrite?

How? She opposed a program but she abided by its laws? That is not a hypocrite. That is living within the laws and still opposing them. And why should she not accept the repayment of her money back to her from the government? They took it from her, why is it wrong (or how is it hypocritical) to accept it back after it was forcefully taken away?

To call her a hypocrite is wrong.

 

[SirRealism]

OK, so she paid the FICA tax (social security) via a mandatory payroll deduction and she paid the medicar tax, again, via a mandatory payroll deduction.

And then she accepted a small portion of her money back from the government that they forcefully took from her against her will.

And now some of you are claiming she is a hypocrite?

How? She opposed a program but she abided by its laws? That is not a hypocrite. That is living within the laws and still opposing them. And why should she not accept the repayment of her money back to her from the government? They took it from her, why is it wrong (or how is it hypocritical) to accept it back after it was forcefully taken away?

To call her a hypocrite is wrong.

I don't normally do FTFY's, but... FTFY.

Oh, and +1

 

[Benny]

I'm not sure what kind of reaction the TS was looking to get, but I'm guessing this isn't it.

 

[level.eleven]

I had this discussion the other night with a colleague. My position was that Rand has done more to hurt the concept of liberty than help it. In my experience, people read AS at an early age and can find common ground with the message of the book. Suddenly, they think are Objectivist scholars. Objectivism is a branch of philosophy. While it may share some common themes with the concept of liberty, they are simply no the same beast. What has evolved is this, Rand detractors automatically associate her with Libertarianism and vice versa - see OP for proof.

The argument of actually getting your money back, using public resources, etc. is one had in very principled voluntaryist circles... I.E. not INGO or within say, the Libertarian party.

 

[Bond 281]

I had this discussion the other night with a colleague. My position was that Rand has done more to hurt the concept of liberty than help it. In my experience, people read AS at an early age and can find common ground with the message of the book. Suddenly, they think are Objectivist scholars. Objectivism is a branch of philosophy. While it may share some common themes with the concept of liberty, they are simply no the same beast. What has evolved is this, Rand detractors automatically associate her with Libertarianism and vice versa - see OP for proof.

The argument of actually getting your money back, using public resources, etc. is one had in very principled voluntaryist circles... I.E. not INGO or within say, the Libertarian party.

I dunno. It seems to me that a minarchist libertarian is pretty much the political embodiment of Objectivism. There are a few different types of libertarians. Objectivist politics fall under the umbrella of libertarian. You're right in that a political movement and a philosophy aren't the same thing, but I would say that a person with Objectivist philosophy HAS to be libertarian.

I also think you greatly discount the influence of Rand's writings. USATODAY.com - Scandals lead execs to 'Atlas Shrugged' refers to a poll in which Atlas Shrugged was the 2nd most influential book behind the Bible. She's been a huge factor in spreading ideas in line with libertarian politics. As was said, there's no bad publicity.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I thought it was rather funny, actually.

But, yes it does make her a hypocrite. Do as I say, not as I do.

 

[Bond 281]

I thought it was rather funny, actually.

But, yes it does make her a hypocrite. Do as I say, not as I do.

Give us a quote where she tells people to refuse social security and medicaid and then you'll be right.

 

[lashicoN]

This just in!!!! Hitler helped an old woman across the street once!

Question: Does this mean he wasn't such a bad guy after all?

 

[Arthur Dent]

Give us a quote where she tells people to refuse social security and medicaid and then you'll be right.

How do you know she never said that?

 

[Bond 281]

How do you know she never said that?

You're making the claim that she's being hypocritical. The burden of proof is on you.