Footage of Officer shooting "unarmed" man.

[IndyDave1776]

I know that the cop could have done something else. He could have gone for a taser, he also could have gone for his rifle or shotgun. But, I think he was justified in drawing his weapon on an uncooperative previous offender.

As to comments about "X would have been plenty of shots", someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most departments trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized? How was he to know that a potentially violent man who had been dancing around and suspected to have a weapon at that moment wouldn't get up and attack?

You only have to kill someone so dead.

 

[Mark-of-Scotland]

He was still an American.

Ernest Manuel Duenez Jr

American?
Looks Mexican to me.

 

[Que]

Ernest Manuel Duenez Jr

American?
Looks Mexican to me.

We don't all look like we came from the U.K., so I don't see what his appearance has to do with anything.

 

[Mark-of-Scotland]

We don't all look like we came from the U.K., so I don't see what his appearance has to do with anything.

It has a lot to do with it. I wouldn't call him an American for many reasons, the fact he's a Mexican and (this is an educated guess here) would self identify as Mexican before American (and many others would identify him as Mexican as well), the fact he's clearly just another piece of **** wannabe gangster with no future or use in society. His loyalties will always be to his fellow pieces of **** criminal scum friends instead of to the country that feeds, cloths and shelters and unfortunately protects him.

I don't even see why this made the news to be honest. It's of no importance at all.

To be blunt these animals are only ever "American" when they are demanding their rights after being hauled up for their crimes either at home or Abroad. Any other time they are happy to be Mexican.

 

[mrjarrell]

NordicHeathenVinlander? Is that you? I see someone's greasing the skids to Shooter. Won't be long now....

 

[Mark-of-Scotland]

NordicHeathenVinlander? Is that you? I see someone's greasing the skids to Shooter. Won't be long now....

Not sure if you're talking to me or not

 

[IndyDave1776]

We don't all look like we came from the U.K., so I don't see what his appearance has to do with anything.

It has a lot to do with it. I wouldn't call him an American for many reasons, the fact he's a Mexican and (this is an educated guess here) would self identify as Mexican before American (and many others would identify him as Mexican as well),.

Gentlemen, I would remind both of you that there is a bit of a cultural difference in perspective here. We Americans are unusual in accepting anyone who joins our culture as Americans regardless of prior national heritage regardless of whether a given person's family arrived on the Mayflower or said person is a freshly-minted citizen with a limited command of the (US) English language. Similarly, if I (being of Anglo-Saxon descent) went to some places in the world declaring myself to be an 'American', I would hear the response that I am not, but rather I am a European.

I hate to see two people I value in a disagreement which has as much to do with cultural baggage as it does the issue itself.

 

[Mark-of-Scotland]

Gentlemen, I would remind both of you that there is a bit of a cultural difference in perspective here. We Americans are unusual in accepting anyone who joins our culture as Americans regardless of prior national heritage regardless of whether a given person's family arrived on the Mayflower or said person is a freshly-minted citizen with a limited command of the (US) English language. Similarly, if I (being of Anglo-Saxon descent) went to some places in the world declaring myself to be an 'American', I would hear the response that I am not, but rather I am a European.

I hate to see two people I value in a disagreement which has as much to do with cultural baggage as it does the issue itself.

It has nothing to with how "fresh" his or his families appearance is in the states. Personally I'm making an Educated guess here based on my own prior experience with immigrants and other "Ethnic Minority" groups and that is they all identify as whatever Ethnicity they are until it comes time to claim a British (or whatever host nation) Identity because they need the rights, freedoms, privileges and perks that come with it.

What i'm saying is why should he be considered as or treated like an American when he only considers himself to be one when it's time to throw him in jail and he wants every protection going?

Also. What's a shooter?

 

[IndyDave1776]

It has nothing to with how "fresh" his or his families appearance is in the states. Personally I'm making an Educated guess here based on my own prior experience with immigrants and other "Ethnic Minority" groups and that is they all identify as whatever Ethnicity they are until it comes time to claim a British (or whatever host nation) Identity because they need the rights, freedoms, privileges and perks that come with it.

What i'm saying is why should he be considered as or treated like an American when he only considers himself to be one when it's time to throw him in jail and he wants every protection going?

Also. What's a shooter?

You are correct that many minorities these day identify with the old country more so than the US. On the contrary, most established Americans are still living in the old model in which people came here to be Americans right down to the point that in World War I, we had troops who arrived on the boat, spoke excellent German but marginally passable English, and served in the army with valor equal to any progeny of the Mayflower. Although that is often no longer the reality, that is where most of us live in our perception.

 

[Exo594]

You only have to kill someone so dead.

And just how would they train for "deadness"? Because he was still moving on the ground after all those shots.

 

[Que]

It has nothing to with how "fresh" his or his families appearance is in the states. Personally I'm making an Educated guess here based on my own prior experience with immigrants and other "Ethnic Minority" groups and that is they all identify as whatever Ethnicity they are until it comes time to claim a British (or whatever host nation) Identity because they need the rights, freedoms, privileges and perks that come with it.

What i'm saying is why should he be considered as or treated like an American when he only considers himself to be one when it's time to throw him in jail and he wants every protection going?

Also. What's a shooter?

How many rep points and welcome messages did you get from people saying their parents and grandparents are from the "old country?" Was there anything wrong with that?

In America we an identify as anything we so choose. That's the great part of being an American. As an American than man did not have a "host" nation and it appears you are making a great deal of assumptions about him without much proof, but I get the feeling you don't need facts to form your opinion about people like him.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I wouldn't call him an American for many reasons

You're not an American yet the staff is letting you post on an American-owned gun-related web site. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the only "Americans" the Native Americans that were here before people from your side of the pond came here and took over?

Do yourself a favor and stop posting your b.s.

NordicHeathenVinlander? Is that you? I see someone's greasing the skids to Shooter. Won't be long now....

Couldn't be, M-O-S has better grammar/spelling skills and doesn't refer to everyone as "brother."

 

[Mark-of-Scotland]

How many rep points and welcome messages did you get from people saying their parents and grandparents are from the "old country?" Was there anything wrong with that?

In America we an identify as anything we so choose. That's the great part of being an American. As an American than man did not have a "host" nation and it appears you are making a great deal of assumptions about him without much proof, but I get the feeling you don't need facts to form your opinion about people like him.

No idea how many rep points i got nor do i particularly care about rep to be honest nor do i think there is anything wrong with people being proud to be what they are be that American, Mexican, Scottish, Irish or whatever.

As i said i made an educated guess based upon my own experience with immigrants and ethnic minorities. I just fail to see why you or anyone else should consider him to be an American simply because he was born in America or has gained Citizenship when the chances are he himself did not consider himself to be an American unless he needed to be for various legal purposes.

Shouldn't an American (either born in America or born overseas) be someone who holds and expresses American values and be proud to be an American rather than someone who chooses the easy way through life, brings misery to those around him and who shirks hard and honest work in favor of the easy money to the detriment of his community and the lives of others.

If by people like him you mean criminals then yes I don't really need much to have an opinion. Known offender, repeat offender, house was being watched due to domestic violence. I grew up surrounded by people like him. I know EXACTLY what they are like. They will never change.

You're not an American yet the staff is letting you post on an American-owned gun-related web site. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the only "Americans" the Native Americans that were here before people from your side of the pond came here and took over?

Do yourself a favor and stop posting your b.s.

Yes and I'm very grateful the staff allow me to post here.
If you want to be technical then yes the only "real" Americans are the Native Americans. I know full well that America was built and made into what it is today by the European/British immigration and I'm not here to argue or complain about Immigration in America because frankly it's none of my business. My issue here is simple. I don't think he would have classed himself as American unless he needed the perks and privileges of it when he attends court and such so why should others consider him to be what he does not?

Had the man in question not been a criminal i know full well i wouldn't be so hard on him but to be honest i ****ing hate criminals. They are the scum of the earth and destroy the lives of everyone they come into contact with so i really have no sympathy for them.

Couldn't be, M-O-S has better grammar/spelling skills and doesn't refer to everyone as "brother."

Really not sure if i should take this as a compliment or not.

 

[mrjarrell]

You're not an American yet the staff is letting you post on an American-owned gun-related web site. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the only "Americans" the Native Americans that were here before people from your side of the pond came here and took over?

Do yourself a favor and stop posting your b.s.



Couldn't be, M-O-S has better grammar/spelling skills and doesn't refer to everyone as "brother."

The smart one's often change their MO. My guess is he's a kindred spirit, at the least.

 

[Mark-of-Scotland]

The smart one's often change their MO. My guess is he's a kindred spirit, at the least.

Do you mean I'm some mental case in a foil hat believing in government conspiracies and subterranean reptile rulers...no I'm not.

With a username like nordicheathenvinland or whatever he seems a bit...far out there.

If by kindred spirit you mean do i take a Zero Tolerance approach to crime and Law Enforcement then yes i do.
I'm a tolerant person and I'll put up with a lot of bull**** from a lot of people but i wont tolerate crime. Swift and harsh punishment instead of these namby pamby community services and probation/suspended sentences

 

[Que]

No idea how many rep points i got nor do i particularly care about rep to be honest nor do i think there is anything wrong with people being proud to be what they are be that American, Mexican, Scottish, Irish or whatever.

As i said i made an educated guess based upon my own experience with immigrants and ethnic minorities. I just fail to see why you or anyone else should consider him to be an American simply because he was born in America or has gained Citizenship when the chances are he himself did not consider himself to be an American unless he needed to be for various legal purposes.

Shouldn't an American (either born in America or born overseas) be someone who holds and expresses American values and be proud to be an American rather than someone who chooses the easy way through life, brings misery to those around him and who shirks hard and honest work in favor of the easy money to the detriment of his community and the lives of others.

If by people like him you mean criminals then yes I don't really need much to have an opinion. Known offender, repeat offender, house was being watched due to domestic violence. I grew up surrounded by people like him. I know EXACTLY what they are like. They will never change.

The problem with people who display beliefs like you is that no matter what a man like whom we are discussing does, he will never be accepted by you. I define him as an American because he was born here or gained citizenship the proper way. Besides, how in the world do you know how that man self-identified? How do you know if he was a taker of the system? How do you know anything about him other than what you perceive based on the color of his skin?

I don't care what he did, as an American he has certain rights. I'm not disregarding his criminal activity, but based on statistics, there are probably more Americans who look you that are on police reports from yesterday with the same charges. Still they are Americans, no matter what bad choices made. You don't get the privilege of defining American values.

As for "they never change," I had to ban a member because he cursed me out for allowing you to stay on this board. He said that after a while your racist hate would start to be seen and that people who belong to your political party will "never change." In the nature and spirit of America, I told him that you have the same right to post as the rest of us and you will not be judged according to what you MAY do, but only by what you actually do.

By the way, NVH utilized lower-case "I" a great deal in his posts.

 

[Mark-of-Scotland]

The problem with people who display beliefs like you is that no matter what a man like whom we are discussing does, he will never be accepted by you. I define him as an American because he was born here or gained citizenship the proper way. Besides, how in the world do you know how that man self-identified? How do you know if he was a taker of the system? How do you know anything about him other than what you perceive based on the color of his skin?

I don't care what he did, as an American he has certain rights. I'm not disregarding his criminal activity, but based on statistics, there are probably more Americans who look you that are on police reports from yesterday with the same charges. Still they are Americans, no matter what bad choices made. You don't get the privilege of defining American values.

As for "they never change," I had to ban a member because he cursed me out for allowing you to stay on this board. He said that after a while your racist hate would start to be seen and that people who belong to your political party will "never change." In the nature and spirit of America, I told him that you have the same right to post as the rest of us and you will not be judged according to what you MAY do, but only by what you actually do.

By the way, NVH utilized lower-case "I" a great deal in his posts.

I don't care about his race. There are plenty of Mexican/Americans who obey and accept the law and i don't have a problem with them. One of them happens to be a good friend of mine whom I have known for a number of years now through our mutual interest in reptiles and keep in regular contact with.

My particular distaste for this man is because of his criminal activities nothing more nothing less.

As i said i made an Educated guess about him based upon my own personal experiences with immigrants/minorities and criminals.

No i don't get to define American values but I'm pretty sure they don't include repeatedly commit crimes and beat your wife/girlfriend as this person obviously did.

Anyway i can see we are clearly not going to agree on this matter so this is the last i will say on it.

 

[IndyDave1776]

And just how would they train for "deadness"? Because he was still moving on the ground after all those shots.

My prior sarcasm notwithstanding, are you telling us that the fact that he was not yet dead is a reason to continue firing as in advocating summary execution?

I will grant you that this individual's passing was probably a gain for the community, but never forget that if he can be executed without the benefit of a trial, then so can you, or any one of us.

 

[Exo594]

My prior sarcasm notwithstanding, are you telling us that the fact that he was not yet dead is a reason to continue firing as in advocating summary execution?

I will grant you that this individual's passing was probably a gain for the community, but never forget that if he can be executed without the benefit of a trial, then so can you, or any one of us.

I think I'm starting to see your point. I'm not advocating on the spot executions. I don't feel that that is just. BUT, if you (a sweeping, general you) choose to use potentially lethal force (the pistol, in this case), the number of shots actually taken falls into a grey area. If the officer were to have reloaded his mag and kept firing, I would agree with you 100%. Then again, if the man were to have died after, say 4 shots, then I would disagree with you. Seeing as how the officer is a government agent, perhaps there should be a double standard. I think a civilian would be justified doing the same thing if their life was explicitly in danger, but as a cop, perhaps they should be thinking a bit more about detaining the offender. And, cops do have body armor.

AS FOR THE REST OF YOU: Do you think we could take the foreigner-with-the-strong-viewpoint-bashing to PM's? Kind of a severe deviation of the original topic.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

And, cops do have body armor.

What does that have to do with anything?