FN Five-seveN

[BuckGem]

Have only been a member here a few months but have not read a post pro or con on the 5.7

 

[shadow6492]

was just down at H&H today shooting and a guy bought the last one. Wow a nice gun, I'm looking to save up and get one. But man $1149 price tag and $28.99 a box of 50rds.

I was told they have low recoil and very light gun to carry!
Check out FN Forum.net good info on these guns and the ps90

 

[tyler34]

well I'm guessing by the avatar your pro I've never shot one but would like to, it would be nice to have but ammo is limited from what I've seen.

 

[BuckGem]

Yea, its light, very low recoil, 20 rounds and lighter than my Glock 23. Ammo at Cabela's is only about $20.00 per box

 

[indykid]

Ammo has stayed around $20 a box of 50 and can be found less than that every now and them. I personally would love to add a Five seveN to complement my PS-90 but somehow spendint $1000 plus for a pistol has me sitting back and just watching.

 

[rhino]

They sure look cool on "Battlestar Galactica." Looks like a fun .22 to have for plinking, but a little spendy for that.

 

[tyler34]

I wonder how this gun fits into the constant .45 is the king of handgun fights?

 

[melensdad]

I wonder how this gun fits into the constant .45 is the king of handgun fights?

I was on the phone with another INGO member earlier today and we both were wondering this very same question. The velocity is outstanding from this little round in a pistol but the bullets are very light and small and I'm just not yet convinced that it is better to throw 5 to 10 little tiny high velocity rounds versus 1 or 2 hits with a big slow bullet. First, it would require actually hitting the target more often, which under real life stress situations is apparently very difficult to do. Second, it would require rapid fire and again, in real life situations that may not be possible.

Now all that said, 1 good shot will stop anyone, and plenty of 22lr 1 stop shots have proven that. Just not sure I trust this round. Yet.

Reports from our troops suggest that it takes multiple hits in CQB with a 5.56 round to stop the bad guys and they'd like a heavier bullet. Why wouldn't that logic also apply to the 5.7FN round?

 

[shooter521]

Reports from our troops suggest that it takes multiple hits in CQB with a 5.56 round to stop the bad guys and they'd like a heavier bullet. Why wouldn't that logic also apply to the 5.7FN round?

The 5.7 in its commercial (i.e. non-armor-piercing) guise is ballistically equivalent to a .17HMR or .22Mag. Not something I would want to bet my life on if other options were available.

Even in its Mil/LE loadings, it's not that impressive; there have been numerous documented failures to stop with the SS190 round in actual service.

From noted ballistics guru Dr. Gary Roberts:
_________________________

Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm projectiles fired by the FN P90:

--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.
--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.
--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.
--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.
--Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.
--Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.

The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

A few large U.S. LE agencies adopted 5.7 mm weapons--after being involved in several OIS incidents with P90's, 5.7 mm usage in these agencies plummeted as a result of the poor terminal performance.

It is all basic physics and physiology. Look at the surface areas in contact with tissue for 9 mm FMJ and JHP compared to 5.7 mm. When both are point forward, the 9 mm FMJ crushes more tissue than the 5.7 mm; for the short time that the 5.7 mm is at FULL yaw, it crushes a bit more tissue than the 9 mm FMJ. At no time does the 5.7 mm crush more tissue than the expanded 9 mm JHP--even when the 5.7 mm FMJ is at full yaw, an expanded 9 mm JHP crushes more tissue. The relatively small temporary cavities produced by both the 9 mm and 5.7 mm projectiles are not likely to cause significant injury to the majority of elastic structures of the body. As with any penetrating projectile, if either a 9 mm or 5.7 mm bullet is ideally placed to cause significant damage to the CNS or major cardiovascular organs, a fatal result is likely.

The P90 can definitely penetrate soft body armor, but then so can 9 mm AP rounds. The greater momentum of 9 mm bullets allow them to defeat vehicles and other intermediate barriers better than the 5.7 mm bullets. Standard 9 mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP JHP loads crush more tissue, offer ideal penetration, and are equally likely to not exit the opponent as the 5.7 mm. 5.56 mm and 6.8 mm weapons offer significantly superior terminal effects compared to 5.7 mm. Bottom line—what does the P90 offer that is not already available?

 

[Britton]

$1149

Wow, he got screwed. And ammo should be about 20 to 21 dollars a box.

 

[rhino]

They sure look cool on "Battlestar Galactica."

Just sayin', is all.

 

[iam1096]

when Gander Mtn. had them new, I believe they had rhem for $1099.99. PSS had them for $949.99. Almost bought one then really didn't want to pay for the ammo cost.

 

[obijohn]

i spent about an hour with one of these. ran around 200 rounds through the gun. the cool factor is up there. the trigger was awful but i was able to ring steel at 100m with no worries. the pistol is truly flat shooting and reasonably accurate. i'd like to try slicking up the trigger and try it again, but for now i consider it a novelty. doesn't mean i don't want one. hehe.

and they DO look cool on battlestar galactica.

 

[bwframe]

The 5.7 in its commercial (i.e. non-armor-piercing) guise is ballistically equivalent to a .17HMR or .22Mag.

So what we really need is an upscaled Ruger MkIII (45/17)?

 

[rhino]

So what we really need is an upscaled Ruger MkIII (45/17)?

That'd be fun!

And, of course, the 5-7s look really cool on "Battlestar Galatica." Starbuck shot a couple of mutineers last night with one of hers (she had two).

 

[glockguy07]

Last time I saw CDNN had these between $850-899?

I've had one and in all reality was not impressed at all - get a FNP 9mm or a .45 if you must have a FN handgun.

 

[glockguy07]

Double tap

 

[SavageEagle]

I've heard of swat teams and some Military units using these. The ammo just looks like a beefed up .25 round to me. Then again I would ALMOST compare the look and feel to that of the Walther P22.

I did read that the gun overall has a 20K round lifespan. That's pretty impressive in and of itself.

 

[gglass]

Although the FN Five-Seven seems like some kind of novelty pistol, it is the real deal. It has been adopted by many special forces and swat teams in a number of countries including the U.S. It is one of the sidearms issued to the Secret Service, and though the Secret Service was told that the ballistics would be unacceptable, they chose it after performing in-house ballistics testing.

There have not been a lot of documented cases of the Five-Seven being used, but one-shot stops seem to be common. One thing to note is that civilians are restricted in the 5.7x28 ammo they can purchase for the Five-Seven... The good stuff (armor piercing) is made available to LE's and military.

Example of single shot kills:

- Houston PD Swat - Single shot to the chest.
- Doraville, GA. Swat - Single neck shot.
- Lima, Peru. Japanese Embassy. - Single shot to the chest, through level-3 body armor.

Many of the civilian versions seen on the street are the DAO trigger models that can be stiff and impact accuracy. The SA trigger models are much easier to shoot.

 

[Britton]

If you shoot something with it you will see it kills stuff, better than a 9mm.