First Time Carrier

[Tay]

I started carrying about 6 days ago. And I have to say it's been quite an interesting experience. I've been going back and forth between open and concealed to see what it's like. I carry a Glock 19 and I haven't mustered enough courage to carry one chambered yet... But I'll get there... Eventually.

No matter which way I carry though I constantly catch myself picturing scenarios wherever I am. Like, if someone was to enter with a gun and hold the place up, what would I do. And I would play out the "intervene scenario" and the "be a good witness scenario."

When I'm in restaurants I tend to pick places that are facing the door or have a clear line of sight to the door. It just kind of started happening?

Anywho, I've already had someone ask me if I was a LEO and it was probably one of the oddest conversations I've ever had in my entire life. It went a little something like this:


*at the gas station paying for gas and cigarettes*

Woman behind counter: Is that a gun?
Me: Yes.
Woman: Are you a police officer?
Me: No.
Woman: Oh... That's scary.
Me: Why?
Woman: I don't know...
*awkward silence*
Woman: Your total is $55.62.

*end of conversation*

How would you guys normally have handled it? I've constantly gone over the conversation again to see if there was anyway to get more information out of her to see why she thinks it's "scary". But I just can't seem to think of a way. And if she did I would've been more than happy to explain why many people carry and why it shouldn't be a scary thing.

Anyways, just thought I would share! Any comments are welcome!

 

[the1kidd03]

I started carrying about 6 days ago. And I have to say it's been quite an interesting experience. I've been going back and forth between open and concealed to see what it's like. I carry a Glock 19 and I haven't mustered enough courage to carry one chambered yet... But I'll get there... Eventually.

No matter which way I carry though I constantly catch myself picturing scenarios wherever I am. Like, if someone was to enter with a gun and hold the place up, what would I do. And I would play out the "intervene scenario" and the "be a good witness scenario."

When I'm in restaurants I tend to pick places that are facing the door or have a clear line of sight to the door. It just kind of started happening?

Anywho, I've already had someone ask me if I was a LEO and it was probably one of the oddest conversations I've ever had in my entire life. It went a little something like this:


*at the gas station paying for gas and cigarettes*

Woman behind counter: Is that a gun?
Me: Yes.
Woman: Are you a police officer?
Me: No.
Woman: Oh... That's scary.
Me: Why?
Woman: I don't know...
*awkward silence*
Woman: Your total is $55.62.

*end of conversation*

How would you guys normally have handled it? I've constantly gone over the conversation again to see if there was anyway to get more information out of her to see why she thinks it's "scary". But I just can't seem to think of a way. And if she did I would've been more than happy to explain why many people carry and why it shouldn't be a scary thing.

Anyways, just thought I would share! Any comments are welcome!

It sounds as though she may be hoplophobic. I would have continued in questions to see if I could determine that to be the case, but that's mostly for my research into that.

Woman: I don't know
Me: So are you just afraid of guns in general? /Do I look menacing or threatening to you? If at this time she looks offput by your question go on to briefly explain/elaborate; "I mean, my gun is safely secured in its holster (where it's supposed to be) and therefore doesn't pose a risk to anyone. So what is it that you have to fear here?"


And would have proceeded in questioning from there depending on her responses to those.

If you guide it (conversation) well enough, it could result in a friendly offer to take someone shooting for their first time, if you're so inclined to put forth that effort. Most people's perception of guns and gun owners are changed for the better after such a safe range experience.

Under VERY similar circumstances I cannot begin to count the number of people I've taken to the range/shoot for their first time or otherwise changed their perception just from the conversation.

 

[Viper1973]

Tay,

Don't worry... it does get easier. When I started carrying I noticed myself doing alot of the same behaviors you described. I honestly chalked it up to always being around my Dad who was retired trooper and inadvertently picking up some of his mannerisms. But you definitely notice alot more of what's going on around you. Which is a VERY good thing!

I'd obviously recommend concealed over open just for the fact that in today's political climate folks tend to freak out way more that they should and it's easier to get used to carrying without stressing about the crazy who calls 911 on you just because you're legally exercising your rights.

Anytime I've encountered someone who comments like the woman did with you I use it as a 'teachable moment'. For example:

Woman: Oh... That's scary.
Response: Why? You do realize that everyone who's properly licensed has gone through multiple law enforcement background checks and passed.

It usually quickly shuts them up or you get the "I didn't know that" comment.

 

[Bigtanker]

Load your gun. Put it your holster. Set it on the table next to the couch. Now watch tv for 4 hours. If the gun goes off, then don't carry with one in the chamber. Just remember, modern guns do not go off without the trigger being pulled. A good holster prevents this.

Another way to get over it is to carry your gun around the house (in a holster) with a loaded chamber.

As for your nerves, they will settle down in a week or so.

Welcome to the club!

 

[rockhopper46038]

I think asking "why?" is a pretty good response.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Sometimes I don't have the time to engage people like that when I'm out and about. Sometimes I feel that it is the improper place like if I were in line at a convenience store with people behind me. I might make some quick questions or comments, but if there are people waiting behind me in line I wouldn't take too long.

 

[rbMPSH12]

I think asking "why?" is a pretty good response.

Agreed. Her response of "I don't know" coupled with your calm demeanor may have been enough to make her consider that being scared wasn't a justifiable reaction to a holstered gun on a regular guy buying gas. If she can't articulate a reason, maybe it got her thinking. I think asking her probing questions would have been a little overboard, to be honest. She wasn't looking for a grilling. If she had responded with something other than "I don't know," like "I don't know you and you could be here to rob me," then a more detailed response like "have I threatened you in any way? I haven't touched my gun or done anything out of the ordinary" would have been warranted. You handled it fine.

As for carrying one chambered, it will come with a little time and carry experience. I started carrying chambered from the beginning, but when I started carrying appendix IWB I was a little nervous just because of where the muzzle points (groin/femoral artery). But I got over that pretty quickly. Occasionally it's still a little nerve-wracking when you think about it, but I know it's in a kydex holster with the trigger guard completely covered and it can't be fired. But you should try to get to carrying chambered as soon as you can do it mentally since it significantly reduces your reaction time and what actions are required of you under stress if you ever had to use your gun in self defense.

 

[88GT]

I have been carrying for nearly 15 years and still play the different "what if" scenarios in my head. I consider it preparation. Where I am has a lot to do with how I respond. Each place gets a quick recon assessment and short play book mentally written. I can't create muscle memory for those kinds of situations so I have to create another kind of memory unless I want to address an emergency situation completely blind.

I've have a few people comment on the gun on my hip. But nobody has ever said it was scary. I don't think chubby moms with kids in tow are all that menacing looking, with or without a firearm. I could sling the .50 and it probably still wouldn't get that kind of response. But I think you're response was just about perfect. I think we can tend towards the preachy in interactions. I tend to comment in a manner that plants a seed and let them fuss with the consequences of whether or not it sprouts. I don't have to time to change someone's mind whose first response is negative. Might be different if it's someone who shows a genuine interest. But naysayers can find a different audience to preach their message.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I think your "why?" response speaks VOLUMES to the attendant.

Simple, to the point, but not loaded, but not terse. I see folks on here that turn it into a lecture to the person behind the counter and alot of times, it doesn't need to be. Just saying "why" shows that you don't fear the firearm, and that she has nothing to fear either.

Another good response would be, "Shouldn't be..." Adds into the "I'm not afraid, so you shouldn't be". Key to sales (and politics) that I've learned in my life is that your customer will smell fear and amplify it. Be calm, be cool and you will gain their confidence.

Turning it into a "Why are you afraid of gunz? OMG, you libtard! It's my right to bear armz!" and so on, or worse, spewing sound bites, like "a cop is too heavy" and so forth can be destructive to the momentum of discourse with an anti. It makes us seem unreasonable and underestimating of the other person's thought process.

Keeping it simple, and giving a response that makes us seem "normal" and not a raving lunatic is great. I'm not saying that giving a reason to the questioner is being a lunatic, but sometimes when folks are passionate about something, they portray themselves as a bit over the top in terms of swaying others. I've been with folks or seen them in line turn into a frothing mad nut when asked about their gun and the look of fear/disgust on the attendant's end was CLEARLY evident. The OP's story is a solid one and one that should be what we strive for: Depict ourselves as normal, calm individuals, not angry, "Come and get them, WOLVERINES!" types. Kind of a honey not vinegar approach.

You 'dun good!

 

[Mark 1911]

My response to the "are you a police officer?" question may be different depending on my perception of the person who is asking.

I was questioned by the manager of a grocery store in my town. He came across as reasonable and not alarmed, although he did mention that due to a recent robbery that some of his cashiers expressed alarm. So I explained that Indiana does not distinguish between OC and CC, that criminals are not going to OC since they are sneaky by default, and that he really should be happy to have a legal carrier in the store considering their past history.

On another occasion, I was questioned by another customer in line behind me at a gas station. His eyes got big when he saw my piece, and he also appeared to be either high or intoxicated. He asked with some alarm if I was a police officer. I simply said "no", and nothing else. That was the end of that conversation.

 

[the1kidd03]

Turning it into a "Why are you afraid of gunz? OMG, you libtard! It's my right to bear armz!" and so on, or worse, spewing sound bites, like "a cop is too heavy" and so forth can be destructive to the momentum of discourse with an anti. It makes us seem unreasonable and underestimating of the other person's thought process.

Keeping it simple, and giving a response that makes us seem "normal" and not a raving lunatic is great. I'm not saying that giving a reason to the questioner is being a lunatic, but sometimes when folks are passionate about something, they portray themselves as a bit over the top in terms of swaying others. I've been with folks or seen them in line turn into a frothing mad nut when asked about their gun and the look of fear/disgust on the attendant's end was CLEARLY evident. The OP's story is a solid one and one that should be what we strive for: Depict ourselves as normal, calm individuals, not angry, "Come and get them, WOLVERINES!" types. Kind of a honey not vinegar approach.

Can't say I've ever seen any of that. Certainly a hindrance to the cause. Hopefully not much of that goes on.

 

[Tay]

ADDITION: I've also had my first LEO interaction about 3 or 4 days ago. I was stopped for speeding (60-65 in a 55 - We'll get to that). I was pulled over by a county sheriff on an unmarked road for speed. The officer approached my vehicle on the passenger side and went through the normal routine. Figured I'd avoid any trouble and handed him my DL and my LTCH. He asked me if I was carrying my handgun today and I replied yes. He asked where it was and I pointed to it. I had it in between the seats. He asked if I knew why he was pulling me over and I replied "No." He then told me he would like to hold on my firearm while we were stopped and it struck me as a bit odd, but I complied and surrendered my firearm. He opened the passenger door while asking me if there was a round in the chamber, I replied "No." and he retrieved the firearm and took it with him to his patrol vehicle. It took about 5-10 minutes for him to run all my information and he returned and said he was going to give me a VERBAL warning. This struck me as a bit odd as well, but I didn't think too much of it. He then proceeded to tell me to keep my speed down with the ice and such and returned my firearm with the magazine out and the slide back. I got to thinking after the incident, did he have any legal ground to confiscate my firearm if I refused? Am I even allowed to refuse during a traffic stop? I wanted to be as compliant as possible to avoid a ticket (last thing I need at this point). But in case it ever happens again, what legal/constitutional grounds do I have? I've tried doing my research but I haven't been able to come up with any solid answers. Any information would be greatly appreciated for future reference. Thanks guys!

Also, to all the PM's, I don't have 50 posts yet so I can't reply. But thanks!

 

[88GT]

 

[nettinyahoo]

Did you count all the bullets in the mag and chamber a round when he gave it back?

 

[nakinate]

You'll need more than that!

 

[Tay]

Did you count all the bullets in the mag and chamber a round when he gave it back?

Ha! Of course!

 

[maverick18]

Did you count all the bullets in the mag and chamber a round when he gave it back?

With all the budget cuts I keep hearing about, that is actually a valid question.

 

[Miketodd]

ADDITION: I've also had my first LEO interaction about 3 or 4 days ago. I was stopped for speeding (60-65 in a 55 - We'll get to that). I was pulled over by a county sheriff on an unmarked road for speed. The officer approached my vehicle on the passenger side and went through the normal routine. Figured I'd avoid any trouble and handed him my DL and my LTCH. He asked me if I was carrying my handgun today and I replied yes. He asked where it was and I pointed to it. I had it in between the seats. He asked if I knew why he was pulling me over and I replied "No." He then told me he would like to hold on my firearm while we were stopped and it struck me as a bit odd, but I complied and surrendered my firearm. He opened the passenger door while asking me if there was a round in the chamber, I replied "No." and he retrieved the firearm and took it with him to his patrol vehicle. It took about 5-10 minutes for him to run all my information and he returned and said he was going to give me a VERBAL warning. This struck me as a bit odd as well, but I didn't think too much of it. He then proceeded to tell me to keep my speed down with the ice and such and returned my firearm with the magazine out and the slide back. I got to thinking after the incident, did he have any legal ground to confiscate my firearm if I refused? Am I even allowed to refuse during a traffic stop? I wanted to be as compliant as possible to avoid a ticket (last thing I need at this point). But in case it ever happens again, what legal/constitutional grounds do I have? I've tried doing my research but I haven't been able to come up with any solid answers. Any information would be greatly appreciated for future reference. Thanks guys!

Also, to all the PM's, I don't have 50 posts yet so I can't reply. But thanks!

Put your Flame Suit on cause it's about to get hot!
A quick search will show you numerous threads where people are all about telling LEOs to "pound sand" and "From my cold dead hands". The honest truth is that Yes you do have a right to tell the officer that he can not take your weapon. Will he comply with that? Who knows, it depends on the officer. In my opinion and experience, if I am pulled over and the officer discovers I have a weapon (I don't always inform, depends on the situation) and they say they want to "hold on to it", my response is simply "I do not consent to any search or seizure of my person or my property". However, if they continue on their path to coonfinger my piece, I will not resist. Where you take it from there is up to you. Some people start or continue to video or audio record their interactions, some will send a letter to the commanding officer or make a phone call, some will go to their lawyers and start down the path of a warrantless search lawsuit, it is all up to you.
Once again, this is all just my honest opinion, you'll get a lot of those here.

 

[Csquared]

Load your gun. Put it your holster. Set it on the table next to the couch. Now watch tv for 4 hours. If the gun goes off, then don't carry with one in the chamber. Just remember, modern guns do not go off without the trigger being pulled. A good holster prevents this.

Another way to get over it is to carry your gun around the house (in a holster) with a loaded chamber.

As for your nerves, they will settle down in a week or so.

Welcome to the club!

I would agree here and have to add that carrying with one in the chamber is a lot like something you are scared to do (I.e. Skydiving or getting on a roller coaster for the first time) once you do it (carry one in the chamber) you will realize quickly that it's the thing to do and it will no longer scare you. Being new to carrying as well I can relate very well with this. For the first few days I didn't not carry with one in the chamber but once I took the plunge I realized this is the ONLY way I'll ever carry from now on.

 

[actaeon277]

I think you did fine at the gas station.

You could always point out there are people hurt by gasoline, yet she works at a gas station.

But sometimes the simple nonchalant method is better.