Firearm in vehicle on college campus?

[nahfuten]

So, my wife is a professor at a local university. While heading out last night for dinner, she informed me that she needed to stop at work to scan some documents and email them to a student. I was carrying, so I informed her that I would have to drop her off on the street outside of the university perimeter and wait there for her. She had a good 10min hike to her building and was just a tad annoyed.

From what I can tell, there is no alternative to this method if this happens again in the future. Any advice? I sure wish I could just wait in front of her building in the car and remove the magazine or something.......

 

[Mr. Habib]

There is an alternative. Drive to the front of the building and let her out. It is not illegal to carry on university property. The law only applies to day care and K-12. It may be, and probably is, against their policy, but all they can do to you is tell you to leave if they see it.

 

[Que]

Although it wouldn't necessarily apply in this situation, since you were the one carrying; however, some campuses (IUB) allow professors to carry firearms, while others (IUPUI) do not. Either way, like Habib said, it is not against the law for you (non employee/non student) to carry on a college campus.

 

[NateIU10]

You can carry on the campus, 100% legal. If asked to leave you must, and IDK if the university would retaliate against your wife's employment for your carrying there if "caught"

 

[revance]

Hey, another Zionsville person!

As was already said, there is nothing illegal about carrying on a college campus, just against their policy. If anything, I would be escorting her to her building at night. Just keep it well concealed so she doesn't get in trouble with her employer.

 

[NateIU10]

Although it wouldn't necessarily apply in this situation, since you were the one carrying; however, some campuses (IUB) allow professors to carry firearms, while others (IUPUI) do not. Either way, like Habib said, it is not against the law for you (non employee/non student) to carry on a college campus.

How does IUB allow professors to carry? From all I have seen in the employment code of conduct, it disallows all staff and employees from possessing firearms and all other weapons on campus property.

 

[revance]

Although it wouldn't necessarily apply in this situation, since you were the one carrying; however, some campuses (IUB) allow professors to carry firearms, while others (IUPUI) do not. Either way, like Habib said, it is not against the law for you (non employee/non student) to carry on a college campus.

How do you know IUB allows professors to carry? I had never heard that. Good for them, now they just need to extend that to everyone legally allowed to carry.

 

[Que]

How does IUB allow professors to carry? From all I have seen in the employment code of conduct, it disallows all staff and employees from possessing firearms and all other weapons on campus property.

How do you know IUB allows professors to carry? I had never heard that. Good for them, now they just need to extend that to everyone legally allowed to carry.

I requested a copy of the SOP from the legal department and it said that "faculty" on the IUB campus can carry firearms. It went on to define who faculty are and it does not include staff. I went to check IUPUI and other campuses in the IU system and it appears that Bloomington is the only campus with this ability. However, I had a Civil Procedure professor at IU Law in Indianapolis who carried every day. Now, I did see that all campuses had the ability to "appeal" to the campus police. I guess this is in place to avoid violations of staff and some faculty members right to due process.

This was two years ago and I will check to see if the policy has changed. When I asked why only IUB faculty are allowed to carry, I did not get a reply.

 

[NateIU10]

So from this it would appear that academic employees are not covered by this rule, correct? Is there anything in academic employment contracts that likens it to this rule?

Firearms and Weapons Prohibitions
AFSCME(BL) 6.10 • AFSCME(IN) 5.5 • AFSCME(SB) 6.7 • CWA 4.7 • PA/SS 5.5 • Hourly 3.5 Revised 2003

Employees covered by this policy
This policy applies to all Staff and Hourly employees at IU.
A. Introduction

1. A safe and secure environment is a fundamental prerequisite for fulfilling the university mission of teaching, research, and public service. IU is committed to maintaining a workplace that is free of violence. This obligation includes eliminating recognized hazards from campus communities that contribute to violence or serious harm.

B. Policy

1. While on university-controlled sites and at university-directed activities, employees are prohibited from introducing, possessing, using, buying, or selling unauthorized weapons, firearms, ammunition, explosives, or items deemed by campus police to be dangerous.

C. Violation of this policy

1. Any employee who becomes aware of a violation of this policy is required to immediately notify the campus police department or his or her supervisor.
2. Violation of this policy is considered a serious offense that endangers the safety of the university communities. Therefore, this offense may result in immediate termination of employment.

D. Definitions

1. An employee is any IU employee, (regardless of employment status) excluding academic employees.
2. An unauthorized firearm is any firearm, regardless of whether the owner has a valid state permit to carry the firearm. The following firearms are excluded from this definition:
   1. A firearm in the possession of a law enforcement officer who is authorized to possess the firearm, either on or off duty, by the employing law enforcement agency.
   2. A firearm in the possession of a person who has received prior written authorization from the campus police chief to possess a firearm on campus.
   3. A firearm that is legally permitted and is being transported directly to or from an off-campus location and university firing ranges located on university campuses.
3. University premises refers to all Indiana University properties.
4. A university-controlled site refers to all permanent Indiana University facilities on all campuses or other locations. It includes any temporary facilities that the university uses to conduct an activity intended primarily for faculty, employees, students, or invited guests of the university, rather than for the general public.
5. A university-directed activity is an event intended solely for IU faculty, employees, students, or invited guests of the university; it is not intended for the general public. These activities include, but are not limited to, graduation events, receptions, meetings, and conferences.
6. A campus police chief is one who has been assigned administrative responsibility for campus law enforcement or security activities.

 

[NateIU10]

But the blurb in the CoC says this for staff:

Firearms and Weapons Prohibitions


Unauthorized firearms, weapons, ammunition, explosives and other items that the campus police consider to be dangerous are prohibited on university premises and at IU events. This policy includes activities such as introducing, possessing, using, buying, or selling firearms. Even if you have a valid state permit to carry a firearm, you are not authorized to carry the firearm on university premises. Only law enforcement officers and others in exceptional circumstances who have prior approval by the police chief are authorized to carry a firearm on university premises.
If you know of a violation of this policy, immediately notify the campus police department or your supervisor. Anyone violating this policy can be immediately terminated.

This looks like the actual rule isn't being followed, and that they are trying to make it look like no one can carry on campus property, which is NOT what the actual rule posted above states.

 

[nahfuten]

Man, do I feel REALLY ignorant right now... I don't know how I was so far off with this one. Thanks for setting me straight.

Would have sworn I saw universities somewhere in the handgun law, but must have imagined it. I'll be brushing up on my carry law in case I made anything else up too.

 

[prtrrssll]

No law to not carry Best thing is to keep consealed dont start a panic

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Man, do I feel REALLY ignorant right now... I don't know how I was so far off with this one. Thanks for setting me straight.

Would have sworn I saw universities somewhere in the handgun law, but must have imagined it. I'll be brushing up on my carry law in case I made anything else up too.

Don't feel bad. We all started with being ignorant (not a slam - means that you simply did not know) of firearms laws. Keep asking those questions to educate yourself.

 

[a.bentonab]

The Indiana Code simply says you can't carry on "school" property. Nearly everyone on here says that doesn't include universities, as they are referred to as "institutions of higher learning" in the code. Myself, I would like a little more clarification, but the code doesn't specify whether or not a "university" is a "school" or not.

It is likely against their policy, but like others have said, it has no force of law. Don't know if your wife might be fired for it though if you were found out.

 

[philo]

New law passed this session and due to come into effect in July states that a "postsecondary educational institution" (college/university) may enforce a policy that doesn't allow guns on campus, including those locked in the trunk of a car.

It was part of the useless new law that denies most employers the ability to tell their employees that they can't keep guns/ammo locked in their trunk at work. There are, however, lots of exceptions including the one for colleges, and Section 3 allows those employers covered by the exceptions to sue the gun owner for damages and legal fees if they don't comply with the ban on storage in a locked vehicle.

Question...don't they need a search warrant to look in your locked trunk?

 

[MattCFII]

New law passed this session and due to come into effect in July states that a "postsecondary educational institution" (college/university) may enforce a policy that doesn't allow guns on campus, including those locked in the trunk of a car.

It was part of the useless new law that denies most employers the ability to tell their employees that they can't keep guns/ammo locked in their trunk at work. There are, however, lots of exceptions including the one for colleges, and Section 3 allows those employers covered by the exceptions to sue the gun owner for damages and legal fees if they don't comply with the ban on storage in a locked vehicle.

Question...don't they need a search warrant to look in your locked trunk?

IIRC though, those are just policies that don't protect you from loosing your job/student status (pretty much the status quo now). It still wouldn't be criminally illegal to carry there.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

The Indiana Code simply says you can't carry on "school" property. Nearly everyone on here says that doesn't include universities, as they are referred to as "institutions of higher learning" in the code. Myself, I would like a little more clarification, but the code doesn't specify whether or not a "university" is a "school" or not.

It is likely against their policy, but like others have said, it has no force of law. Don't know if your wife might be fired for it though if you were found out.

You must look elsewhere in the I.C. for the definition of "school".

post-secondary schools are NOT covered by that definition.

Many thing are covered... But post-secondary, public or private, isn't covered.

"Trust but verify"

-J-

 

[Mr. Habib]

New law passed this session and due to come into effect in July states that a "postsecondary educational institution" (college/university) may enforce a policy that doesn't allow guns on campus, including those locked in the trunk of a car.

It was part of the useless new law that denies most employers the ability to tell their employees that they can't keep guns/ammo locked in their trunk at work. There are, however, lots of exceptions including the one for colleges, and Section 3 allows those employers covered by the exceptions to sue the gun owner for damages and legal fees if they don't comply with the ban on storage in a locked vehicle.

Question...don't they need a search warrant to look in your locked trunk?

Only the police need / can get a search warrant. Your employer cannot search your vehicle without your consent. They can, however, fire you for any reason or none at all. They can simply ask for your consent and fire you for refusing, or fire you the next day because they don't like your shoe laces. That's why this law is a sham, any employer that doesn't want guns on their property can still fire anyone that they suspect having one They just have to find or makeup a different reason for the termination.

 

[Astrocreep]

'against policy' is not equal to 'against the law'

OP, buy your wife some flowers and CC wherever you please.
*(excluding those places forbidden by law of course)


Mr Habib may be right that they can fire you at will for any reason at all, but if you can document/prove in some way that you were pushed out because of a firearm in your vehicle, you could sue in civil court for big $$.

Your phone probably has a voice recorder on it...

Wrongful Termination is still a valid thing to sue for...

The law is imperfect, but better than nothing.

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

I tend t0 disagaree. That little blurb from the employee hand book talks about having a permit. We don't ahve permits in indiana. lawl.