Fire a gun on the moon?

[btownie]

Is it possible in any way shape or form? This was a recent topic of discussion with my friends.

 

[Scutter01]

Yes. Gunpowder contains its own oxidizer and so it will fire just fine in a vacuum.

More:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2282/would-a-gun-work-in-space

 

[Mackey]

I'm sure if you google this you'll find a better answer. I'm sure some here have already got their google on. The cartridge is self-contained, it does not need an outside sourse of oxygen. It is going to fire and it is going to move that projectile with much less effect from gravity (of the moon). The lunar module used rocket to leave teh surface of the moon so I'm sure it would work just fine.

 

[Goodcat]

Yes. Google-fu

Curious About Astronomy: Can you fire a gun on the Moon?

 

[canav844]

And bullet drop will only be 1/6th of what it is on earth so you'll have a fair bit more range between the reduced drag and reduced gravity.

Now whether or not your space suit glove fit inside the trigger guard or can manipulate the safety that's a bit more of an issue.

There was an article I want to say last summer, about firing a bullet in space while in orbit, the conclusion was the biggest risk was it ending up in an orbit at the same altitude and it punching your spacecraft.

 

[btownie]

So by that reasoning, (in both those articles) a flintlock would not work?

 

[Colts]

I am not sure the specific formulation of the primer and gunpowder, maybe?

For the gun to fire the gunpowder needs to burn; assited by spark, fuel and oxygen. Primer provides spark and gunpowder provides fuel, so all that is needed is oxygen (which is lacking on the Moon).

So the gun may only fire if the primer or gunpowder contained enough oxygen or other oxidizer to burn the gunpowder. If the shell was sealed and was able to contain its own oxidizer then yes (rockets carry their own liquid oxygen to burn fuel - fine aluminum powder and/or hydrogen).

Short answer (normal earthly gun and bullet) - No, gun will not fire; the bullet would leak any oxygen in the low pressure (i.e. vacuum) of space. No oxygen, no bang!

Long answer - Yes/Maybe, depending upon a new design and a way to introduce oxygen where it is needed to oxidize the fuel and burn. The extremely low density of the essentially non existent Moon atmoshpere is not a good medium to transport sound waves, so little if any noise would be heard if it does go bang.

The question is actually irrelevant because everyone knows that guns are not used in space; the preferred equipment is Phasers, Proton Torpedos, Lasers, etc.

 

[Scutter01]

For the gun to fire the gunpowder needs to burn; assited by spark, fuel and oxygen. Primer provides spark and gunpowder provides fuel, so all that is needed is oxygen (which is lacking on the Moon).

So the gun may only fire if the primer or gunpowder contained enough oxygen or other oxidizer to burn the gunpowder. If the shell was sealed and was able to contain its own oxidizer then yes (rockets carry their own liquid oxygen to burn fuel - fine aluminum powder and/or hydrogen).

Short answer (normal earthly gun and bullet) - No, gun will not fire; the bullet would leak any oxygen in the low pressure (i.e. vacuum) of space. No oxygen, no bang!

Gunpowder doesn't require oxygen to burn. It already contains a chemical oxidizer in solid form, so it's not going to leak out in a vacuum.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I am not sure the specific formulation of the primer and gunpowder, maybe?

For the gun to fire the gunpowder needs to burn; assited by spark, fuel and oxygen. Primer provides spark and gunpowder provides fuel, so all that is needed is oxygen (which is lacking on the Moon).

I'm not sure if you're trolling or just lacking a basic understanding of chemistry.

Black powder and gun powder both contain chemical oxidizers. In the case of black powder it's in the potassium nitrate. In the case of gun powder (single or double base) it's in the -NO3 radicals molecularly bonded to the fuels.

Free oxygen is not needed for either to work. What is needed is sufficient ambient heat. Space out in near-earth orbit can be pretty cold in the shadows (-280f or more) and at those low temperatures powder and primers probably will not ignite.

 

[btownie]

Are there any astronauts on INGO willing to give this a go?

 

[Scutter01]

Are there any astronauts on INGO willing to give this a go?

ATM is a cosmetologist. That's close enough, right?

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

An astronaut might be willing, but NASA would have to be involved, and that's somewhat problematic these days.

Yes, even a flintlock would work; as has been noted, gunpowder, either black or smokeless, carries it's own oxidizer (where would the oxygen come from in a closed cartridge?) so will fire just fine in a vacuum, underwater, whatever. Underwater there'll be a lot more drag, while on the moon there is much less gravity. Either way, you'd have to recalibrate the drop on your scope, but somehow I doubt there will be many sniping targets on the moon for a while.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

I wonder what recoil would be like. Would it send you zooming off backwards?

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Recoil would be the same. Physics would dictate the response. That whole "equal and opposite reaction" thing. If you're out in zero gravity, it would indeed send you back, and spinning at that, because the bore probably isn't in line with your center of mass. On the moon, it might bounce you back a step, just because you're not held to the surface as hard, but it's not going to send you careening off into space.

 

[wolfts01]

Guns work in space. The gunpowder does not need air to ignite.

I do wonder about the lack of atmospheric pressure on the outside of the barrel, though.

 

[btownie]

I wonder what would happen if you were in orbit. Would the bullet not leave the gun?

 

[shibumiseeker]

Guns work in space. The gunpowder does not need air to ignite.

I do wonder about the lack of atmospheric pressure on the outside of the barrel, though.

14.7psi at sea level (less the higher the altitude) is well below the statistical noise threshold of the pressure variations of the charge itself which can be between 20,000 and 50,000psi.

I wonder what would happen if you were in orbit. Would the bullet not leave the gun?

Why would it not?

But so's not to be too much a smartass, yes, the bullet will leave the gun at the regular velocities.

 

[snowrs]

I wonder what would happen if you were in orbit. Would the bullet not leave the gun?

It will leave the barrel, but depending on YOUR reference point and if they fired with or against the speed of travel will determine the reference speed. For instance if you have a Pitcher on a train and he throws a ball at 100 mph off the back of a 100mph train it will drop to the ground. If he throws it off the front it will measure 200 mph from the ground.

 

[shibumiseeker]

It will leave the barrel, but depending on YOUR reference point and if they fired with or against the speed of travel will determine the reference speed. For instance if you have a Pitcher on a train and he throws a ball at 100 mph off the back of a 100mph train it will drop to the ground. If he throws it off the front it will measure 200 mph from the ground.

-.00000000000000000000001 for ignoring relativistic effects.






(geek humor)

 

[snowrs]

-.00000000000000000000001 for ignoring relativistic effects.



(geek humor)

Your right, If our train starts to reach the speed of light your ball may become heavier and the distance would contract.