This thread has high hopes of not solving or agreeing on anything, EVER!
Matter can NOT be created.
IMHO... There has to be a God. This place we exist in is just too complicated to just happen.
I'm not extremely religious, but I know something beyond mere science is going on.
Evolutionists say that matter came from nothing or it does not have an origin (Big bang theory). But it is impossible because it is against the Law of thermodynamics. Matter can NOT be created.
Evolutionist claim that life was formed from inorganic compounds. That can never be proven. Moreover it is against the law of biogenesis - life comes only from life.
If evolution was true, we should see in nature millions of ‘missing links’. But where are they?
Polystrate fossilsGeology is supposed to be be the one branch of science that proves evolution. But when all evidences are examined geology favors creation. Evolution requires intermediary fossils and paleontology can’t provide them. Furthermore they provide many proofs for creation. For e.g.-the human and dinosaur tracks which were found together in Texas. But this is impossible according to evolution because humans came to the world 70 million years after dinosaurs became extinct. There are many other proofs such as Polystrate fossils, frozen mammoth in Siberia etc.
Complex BrainThe human brain has about 120,000,000,000,000 connections. Such complexity can’t come by mere chance. There is enough information to build an entire body in the DNA of every cell of a body. It is written in the DNA language. But who made this? Certainly a language won’t be made by accident.
IMHO... There has to be a God. This place we exist in is just too complicated to just happen.
I'm not extremely religious, but I know something beyond mere science is going on.
Because bricks have no other means of being arranged into a wall than by a mason.
Prove that the only means of arranging a universe is by God.
Listen, Kid, I'm not trying to wreck your faith. Please be as devoted as you want. You must understand that if your faith is dependent on some really fanciful beliefs that do not, in any way, affect your relationship with God, you will have a weak faith that is easily dislodged, so you will cling to it, ever tighter, with even more outlandish ideas required to support the original outlandish ideas.
Try to evolve your belief system to something that exists in harmony with Nature and sees God's hand in the regular workings of Nature. Consider being a Methodist. They aren't rattled by Evolution or any other scientific idea. If Evolution is how God wants it, so be it. It's piety is proven.
Is it really necessary for you to do good to your neighbor to believe that you were created in a day out of dust? Kick this one to the curb, and get a more dare I say, evolved, belief system.
Thomas Jefferson in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr:
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded faith."
The United States was NOT founded as a Christian nation was early stated in the terms of a treaty with Tripoli, drafted in 1796 under George Washington and signed by John Adams in 1797:
" As the government of the United States of America is not, in any case, founded on the Christian religion: as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
"You make an excellent point when you note that the disputed Article 11 says the government of the United States is not founded upon the Christian religion. The government is not the nation, and the government of the United States is not the same as the state and local governments. In adopting the First Amendment, the Founders clearly intended that there be no established religion at the national level, but they left the states free to have their own establishments. A primary reason for the adoption of the First Amendment establishment clause was the different establishments at the state level -- Congregationalists in New England, Anglicans in the South, Baptists in Rhode Island, Catholics in Maryland, Quakers in Pennsylvania, etc. If I had been a Senator at the time of the ratification of the Treaty of Tripoli, I might have raised my eyebrows at the wording of Article 11, but I probably wouldn't have considered the statement categorically false. The statement does not directly contradict my understanding that the United States was founded upon Biblical values that were brought to America largely by Christians. "
"Those who cite the Treaty of Tripoli as evidence that this nation was not founded on the Christian religion, usually ignore the Treaty of Paris of 1783. This Treaty, negotiated by Ben Franklin and John Adams among others, is truly a foundational document for the United States, because by this Treaty Britian recognized the independence of the United States. The Treaty begins with the words, "In the Name of the most holy and undivided Trinity... ," and there is no dispute about its validity or its wording."
- John Adams, Works, Vol. X, pp. 45-46, to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature.
So then, how would you respond to this question I have seen asked..
"If an orderly wall is evidence of a Master bricklayer, why couldn't an orderly universe be used as evidence of a Creator?"
"First, show me the undisputed link between lower animals and man"
Evangelicals are scary, uneducated, anti-intellectual, and dangerous.
They need to be kept very far from where serious thought is conducted. They engage in anti-Logic. They start with their conclusions, and they manufacture the premises to support the conclusions.
My friend, you do not know evangelicals. The vast majority are not as you describe. Some are, of course, but not the majority or the mainstream. You are adopting the tactics of the left. Ad hominium arguments rather than dealing with the truth; constructing straw men easy to attack and refute but bearing no semblance to reality; painting everyone with the same broad brush rather than study to learn the true belief system and presenting it accurately.
Respectfully, I suggest you learn before you speak. Please do your home work and then come have this discussion. I will be happy to interact with you about evangelical beliefs if you will do your homework. I value the interaction and debate with knowledgeable critics. It helps me improve my views and my thinking, and it helps the Truth to be seen in the marketplace of ideas. However, it is my responsibility to know the facts before I speak. It is yours, as well.
BTW, I am an evangelical, I hold a BA, two MAs and a Ph.D. in a field that combines anthropology, theology, history and communications. I am typical of most evangelical leaders. I speak three languages. I have lectured in my fields in five different nations. We are not uneducated. We may disagree with you, but we have studied diligently to understand our world. We speak the Truth as we understand it, but we are always ready to adjust our views as new evidence requires it. There are three points, though, on which we will not yield:
1. The Creator has revealed himself to humanity in the Bible.
2. Jesus Christ showed us the full extent of the Creator's love for every human being.
3. Jesus Christ showed us how the Creator expects us to treat one another, how we are to live in this present day—act righteously, love your neighbor, walk humbly with your Creator.
If we are " scary, uneducated, anti-intellectual, and dangerous," it is only because you do not know us and do not want to extend to us the privilege we grant to you—the right to speak freely in the marketplace of ideas. We may not agree with you, but we will not call you names or ridicule your views. We may disagree with your views, but we will defend to the death your right to hold and advocate your views.
OK, I have my helmet on. Start firing!
This is awesome! Another thread about Science vs. religion, SWEET!
This thread has high hopes of not solving or agreeing on anything, EVER!
Which is why I'm posting this to give me an extra post :3
We now return to your previously scheduled program. Carry on!
Evangelicals Hijack Education In Texas (And Beyond)
Naw, their just taking it back from the theives that stole it in the first place. They made the mistake of trusting the government to do the right thing and they finally woke up and realized the government couldn't be trusted. Well, better late than never.
Respectfully, I suggest you learn before you speak. Please do your home work and then come have this discussion. I will be happy to interact with you about evangelical beliefs if you will do your homework. I value the interaction and debate with knowledgeable critics. It helps me improve my views and my thinking, and it helps the Truth to be seen in the marketplace of ideas. However, it is my responsibility to know the facts before I speak. It is yours, as well.
Cool. I suggest that you may be committing the fallacy of the insufficient sample, but I take your point.
Does anyone else notice that smoking357 hardly answers a direct question? You'd make a great politician---never answer a questions directly. Instead, let's throw around terms like "red herring" and "fallacy of this that or the other thing" or "straw man" ad nauseum. Reminds me of dancing through a minefield.