Evangelicals Hijack Education In Texas (And Beyond)

[Expat]

Persons of intellect? Do you know how many well educated and intellectual people are or were Christians? Do you want a list? Also, not all Christians buy into the idea that the earth is 6,000 years old, or that evolution within a species doesn't happen, so you are generalizing. I don't think you are qualified to tell other gun owners what they "need to believe" for gun ownership to grow. Just believe what you want, and a friendly debate is fine, but you just like to cause problems.

You and others realize that this will continue until you all stop replying to a certain poster and his attempts to get you all fired up?(which worked) I do believe that there should not be a direct connection between church and state but we are a country that was founded on godly principles. Also, I do believe it was those principles that helped us succeed for so long but the lack of principles and morals is the root cause of our destruction of a country and liberty.

Both are ways of saying:

My apologies for violating that rule in this thread.

 

[kingnereli]

Actually, keep your bigotry against Christians and Creationists out of here period.

You could have stated your opinion without insulting other members of this board, but chose not to, thereby making your arguments questionable, at best.

Do some research on the subject you CLAIM to know so much about, then come back when you can handle a factual debate, instead of your normal textual diarrhea.

Textual diarrhea.

You and others realize that this will continue until you all stop replying to a certain poster and his attempts to get you all fired up?(which worked).

Darn it, you're right. It is just hard to not take the bait. I had him on my ignore list for awhile to try to stay out of the ignorance storms he creates but people quote him and then I read it anyway so here I am.

I do believe that there should not be a direct connection between church and state but we are a country that was founded on godly principles. Also, I do believe it was those principles that helped us succeed for so long but the lack of principles and morals is the root cause of our destruction of a country and liberty.

I agree completely with the highlighted section as it is stated. However, that seems to mean different things to different people. I believe in benevolent neutrality. I don't want the federal government to establish The Church of America. I don't want any form of theocracy.

However, a whole lot of people use the separation of church and state to justify their hostility toward religion. A phrase that does not appear in the constitution but only in a letter from Jefferson to the Danburry baptists. (not exactly one of the founding documents.) The first amendment only prevents the establishment of a governmentally preferred religion. "...government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion." - Justice David Souter. It guarantees free exercise as well. As always original intent is important.

I can not tell from your post if you agree or not as the highlighted statement could be taken several ways.

 

[shooter521]

OK, guys, this thread, like many other religion threads before it, is starting to circle the drain. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Please keep the discussion civil. One poster making generalizations about a particular religious group - incorrect or not - does not warrant name-calling in return. If you don't agree with another member or don't like what he has to say, either argue your point, neg rep him, bow out of the discussion, add him to your ignore list, or some combination of those. If you continue to roll in the mud, don't be surprised when you find that you've gotten dirty (or infracted, as the case may be) and the thread has been closed.

 

[irishfan]

I can not tell from your post if you agree or not as the highlighted statement could be taken several ways.

I believe that the two should not be tied together and forced upon others. However, I do believe that our once great prinicpals and values are what made this country strong at its core and many of those did come from elements of religion but not necessarily directly attached to it. Basically, I am saying that you can help yourself greatly by living your life according to the commandments and many lessons in the bible whether you believe in what it teaches. I was not always a regular at church and actually became a regular in the last year or so but as a young child I was taught the difference between right and wrong.

 

[Roadie]

Be warned everyone, pointing out that someone is a troll is grounds for an Infraction.

I just got one.

Edit:
Definition of Troll: "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community"

Please tell me in what way I was wrong, or name calling by merely pointing out the obvious, as OTHERS on this thread have also done?

 

[rmcrob]

I am a Christian. I am a scientist. (Not a Christian Scientist, please note.)

There is no tension in my head between Christianity and science. Christianity is a relationship and science is a method for looking at the world. Why would the two conflict?

I believe that God created the universe. I've dived into theoretical physics and cosmology pretty deeply, and I have not been able to go back further than the big bang. I'm convinced that God created something out of nothing and it made a big bang. You can believe that or not, and I really don't care. I do.

I have absolutely no problem believing that God exists and that evolution pertains. I have studied the Bible for years and have found nothing there that precludes it. Again, I don't really care whether you agree with me or not.

Neither of these issues is of great importance. What matters is whether you acknowledge that God is here and now and whether you desire to have a friendship with him or not.

Since he is clean and you are dirty (as am I and everyone else), you wouldn't want to meet him on your own. You need an introducer; one who is clean. If you want to meet the introducer, let me know and I'll make a few phone calls and try to get you in to him.

All the discussion of evolution and creation is a giant red herring. If we make the main thing the main thing, the discussion will be more fruitful.

 

[rmcrob]

Be warned everyone, pointing out that someone is a troll is grounds for an Infraction.

I just got one.

I shouldn't be surprised if announcing an infraction on the forum is grounds for another. Perhaps, my brother, you should cool down a little.

 

[shooter521]

Be warned everyone, pointing out that someone is a troll is grounds for an Infraction.

I just got one.

I replied to your PM stating why you got the infraction, and it wasn't just for that. But instead of waiting for my reply, you went and posted here and in the Forum Feedback & Suggestions thread complaining about it. Airing such "dirty laundry" in a public forum is generally considered bad nettiquette, and in this case it's also thread-jacking. I suggest you take Randy's advice above and

 

[smoking357]

Do some research on the subject you CLAIM to know so much about, then come back when you can handle a factual debate, instead of your normal textual diarrhea.

So Creationism is based in fact, is it?

Guys, here's how the rest of the world views Creationists. It does the community of gun owners little good to have such a heavy representation of Creationists in it.

WARNING: LANGUAGE

YouTube - Creationism with Ricky Gervais

YouTube - Bill Hicks on Creationists

YouTube - lewis black explains religion

I realize that many of you were raised in families that believed such things, so it will always be difficult for you to turn your backs on this line of belief. I could ask you to try to ask critically whether the story makes any sense, but I also have the psychological awareness to know that the act of criticism is tantamount to apostasy. Further, keeping one's place within a group is deeply satisfying. Identity is derived, in large part, from group membership, so it's psychologically easier to defend a belief than it is to discard the belief and risk alienation from the group. Fundamentalist churches are often an all-or-none affair, so one's membership in the group comes under great personal risk if a fundamental belief is openly rejected.

I know why persons raised in beliefs cling to beliefs, but what I don't know is why gun ownership sees an overrepresentation of Evangelicals, vis-a-vis the population, as a whole. What about guns attracts such people? What about guns prevents a heavy representation of academics and scholars? A gun is an areligious item, yet we find certain demographics drawn to gun ownership disproportionate to societal composition.

We find guns in rural America, but not at Harvard. Why?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

We find guns in rural America, but not at Harvard. Why?

Because out here we cling to our God and guns.

You never said why you hate old Jews. Did you forget?

 

[Roadie]

So Creationism is based in fact, is it?

Guys, here's how the rest of the world views Creationists. It does the community of gun owners little good to have such a heavy representation of Creationists in it.

YouTube - Creationism with Ricky Gervais

YouTube - Bill Hicks on Creationists

YouTube - lewis black explains religion

I realize that many of you were raised in families that believed such things, so it will always be difficult for you to turn your backs on this line of belief. I could ask you to try to ask critically whether the story makes any sense, but I also have the psychological awareness to know that the act of criticism is tantamount to apostasy. Further, keeping one's place within a group is deeply satisfying. Identity is derived, in large part, from group membership, so it's psychologically easier to defend a belief than it is to discard the belief and risk alienation from the group. Fundamentalist churches are often an all-or-none affair, so one's membership in the group comes under great personal risk if a fundamental belief is openly rejected.

I know why persons raised in beliefs cling to beliefs, but what I don't know is why gun ownership sees an overrepresentation of Evangelicals, vis-a-vis the population, as a whole. What about guns attracts such people? What about guns prevents a heavy representation of academics and scholars? A gun is an areligious item, yet we find certain demographics drawn to gun ownership disproportionate to societal composition.

We find guns in rural America, but not at Harvard. Why?

I never said that Creationism was fact. I said you do not have all the facts about Creationism, and the various forms it takes. Young earth, old earth, Intelligent design, etc. Please do pay attention.

So, your FACTS are videos of COMEDIANS? Allrightythen

Why are there guns in rural areas? Uhm, because there are less police in rural areas perhaps? Or because one needs to protect themselves from not only the human element, but coyotes, mountain lions, etc etc depending on the state? I know, I know, you are implying that the uneducated live in rural areas, and the enlightened intellectuals such as yourself do not.
Do you have any FACTS, with sources, to back up your claims?

Ah, now we come to "clinging to guns and religion", where have I heard that before?

 

[smoking357]

Persons of intellect? Do you know how many well educated and intellectual people are or were Christians?

You win a red herring.

 

[Roadie]

Oh, and BTW? regarding Harvard, which is in Cambridge, MA I do believe...

Gun permits surge in state - The Boston Globe

"The number of gun permits issued in Massachusetts surged by more than 15 percent over the past two years.."

"Cambridge (up) 25 percent"

You were saying?

 

[smoking357]

I never said that Creationism was fact. I said you do not have all the facts about Creationism, and the various forms it takes. Young earth, old earth, Intelligent design, etc. Please do pay attention.

No. It's all bunk. I refuse to legitimize any of it. It's an excuse to avoid science. It's a complete abdication of the scientific method. It starts with a conclusion it needs to reach then manufactures its premises.

No acknowledgment of any flavor it of it must every creep into a textbook.

I know, I know, you are implying that the uneducated live in rural areas, and the enlightened intellectuals such as yourself do not.

Wow, you went very defensive with that.

Ah, now we come to "clinging to guns and religion", where have I heard that before?

Don't go straw man. You're getting all worked up over this. Calm down.

 

[smoking357]

Oh, and BTW? regarding Harvard, which is in Cambridge, MA I do believe...

Gun permits surge in state - The Boston Globe

You were saying?

Go on. What argument are you trying to make?

 

[Roadie]

Go on. What argument are you trying to make?

Do you really need it explained to you, or are you being facetious? I suspect the latter.

 

[jdhaines]

Do you really need it explained to you, or are you being facetious? I suspect the latter.

It sounds like he's trying to find a point to your argument. Just because people in MA are getting gun permits more frequently, the type of people at Harvard are not necessarily following the same actions. There is still a large difference in gun ownership between "intellectuals" such as those at Harvard, and "rurals" such as those who live in the country and small towns...

Not to fight someone else's fight...

 

[PatriotPride]

You can't fix stupid. We can present every piece of evidence, but if someone wants to stay entrenched in their bitter mentality then that is their decision. Can we please just let this waste of a thread die? Any further participation in this thread is just begging for a headache and infraction.

 

[smoking357]

Because out here we cling to our God and guns.

Note that you said your God. .

You never said why you hate old Jews. Did you forget?

Ah, yes, that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoking357
What's really terrifying is that I could be dealing with someone in an apparently rational transaction though, unknown to me, that person could hold a deep belief that certain ancient Jewish myths are to be taken as literally true.

Why do you hate old Jews?

Yes, I did tell you that I'd point out the specific fallacy to help you avoid such mistakes in the future. That's just the good old non sequitur. Yours is so excessive in that it comes so far out of left field that it doesn't have a further manner of delineation.

 

[smoking357]

It sounds like he's trying to find a point to your argument. Just because people in MA are getting gun permits more frequently, the type of people at Harvard are not necessarily following the same actions. There is still a large difference in gun ownership between "intellectuals" such as those at Harvard, and "rurals" such as those who live in the country and small towns...

Not to fight someone else's fight...

I rather hoped this would be obvious.

I was perhaps optimistic to suppose he would wave had the statistical rigor to show the base and the increase to compare to, say, Spencer, IN.

I like your Avvy.