Ethanol Boost Is Going To Kill Your Mower

[mrjarrell]

And likely all of our other small engines, too. With the EPA's recent discussion of boosting levels in gas to over 15%, we're going to look at some serious costs in repairing our small engines. I've heard mechanics for many, many years now kvetching about the misery ethanol causes them and their customers and now it's likely to get worse. Thanks a lot EPA and corn farmers.

Ethanol to 15% = Harm to the environment

 

[jeremy]

Don't thank the Farmers...
This is all a G'man driving thing, well them and Big OIl...

 

[eldirector]

Small engines, older/classic cars, and even some newer cars (my wife's Saturn HATES ethanol in the fuel). Expect gas mileage to plummet, as ethanol produces less power than gasoline.

At least our farmers can sell more corn, I guess (though it is a TERRIBLE source of ethanol for fuel).

I am well stocked on carb cleaner (how's THAT for the environment), so am ready to go!

 

[dross]

Ethanol subsidies should end for a variety of reasons.

 

[pudly]

Ethanol subsidies should end for a variety of reasons.

This. World food prices are going up substantially this year, similar to the food shortages of 2008 and we are using tax dollars to convert ours into fuel.

 

[femurphy77]

What are the downsides of ethanol in relation to engine life?

 

[mrjarrell]

What are the downsides of ethanol in relation to engine life?

There's a short film on it at the link, where a small engine mechanic explains the downsides. He's not the best spoken person in the world, but he more than makes the point.

 

[Leadeye]

The local lawn mower place sells Avgas for mowers and chain saws. It's more expensive but for how much you use beats the repair costs.

Big money makes the decisions and if it costs you more to fix your lawn mower they really could care less. Your politician is only interested in what the Washington based lawyer lobbiest is giving them.

 

[eldirector]

#1 problem is that alcohol will attract/absorb moisture. The "gas" won't stay fresh as long. That 5-gallon can for your weedwacker won't be good at the end of the summer.

Alcohol is also not compatible with many seals, o-rings, and hoses. It will essentially dissolve them. Newer cars (last 10 years or so) are likely fine, but "classic" cars are in trouble. Also note that older oxygen sensors can be damaged by ethanol in the fuel system.

Alcohol is a great cleaner and solvent. Unfortunately, you WANT your piston rings to be lubricated.

Finally, alcohol has the same effect as increasing "octane". Engines not tuned for the new fuel will suffer in performance. High-octane and E85 vehicles have computers that will drastically increase the timing to compensate. Engines without this will run as if their timing is slightly retarded (sluggish, loss of power, and needing more throttle to maintain speed). Of course, this is until water is absorbed, which will then swing your "octane" rating the other direction. Now your timing is way advanced, and you risk detonation/pinging and burning through a piston.

Did you know that most car manufacturers limit fuels to E10 or LESS? Check your owners manual. E15 may void your engine warranty.

 

[Lucas156]

Is there any way to remove the ethanol content and then use the gas?

 

[eldirector]

Is there any way to remove the ethanol content and then use the gas?

Sure.

Mix water into the fuel. The ethanol will absorb it and sink to the bottom of the container (more dense). E15 will be 15% ethanol by volume, so 0.15 (1/6th) gallons of water should get it all. then just siphon off the gas from the top, or drain the water/ethanol from the bottom. (edit: forgot - it isn't 1:1. Ethanol can hold a LOT of water. Better mix in more like 5:1 water:ethanol)

Of course, you will be left with 15% less fuel than you started with, and you paid for a whole gallon. Works out to be some pretty expensive gas!

But, as an added trick, you COULD distill the ethanol back out of the water mix, and have nearly 100% alcohol!

 

[Lucas156]

Sure.

Mix water into the fuel. The ethanol will absorb it and sink to the bottom of the container (more dense). E15 will be 15% ethanol by volume, so 0.15 (1/6th) gallons of water should get it all. then just siphon off the gas from the top, or drain the water/ethanol from the bottom. (edit: forgot - it isn't 1:1. Ethanol can hold a LOT of water. Better mix in more like 5:1 water:ethanol)

Of course, you will be left with 15% less fuel than you started with, and you paid for a whole gallon. Works out to be some pretty expensive gas!

But, as an added trick, you COULD distill the ethanol back out of the water mix, and have nearly 100% alcohol!

Hmmm maybe there is a more economical way. If I had a classic car I wanted to preserve maybe I would be willing to go through the trouble. Otherwise this is friggin stupid.

 

[printcraft]

I know my old rider mower ran like when I put 89 in it that had ethanol blend.

(Gassed the truck and filled the 5 gal gas can for the mower at the same time.)

No problems running with the standard blend 87 octane.

Mowers and the like are set VERY lean from the factory to meet emissions.

 

[eldirector]

Yep Friggin' Stupid is the correct answer.

You can always buy ethanol-free gas. Not sure how many still still be around after all this new legislation, but there are a few stations out there.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

I might stop in Clermont on the way home, just for fun.

 

[SWAMPMASTER]

I add ATF fluid to my small engines to help keep them lubricated due to the drying action of the newer gas regs, This per my mechanic will help alot so far no problems but i also add LEAD Subsitute also

 

[Jack Ryan]

The local lawn mower place sells Avgas for mowers and chain saws. It's more expensive but for how much you use beats the repair costs.

Big money makes the decisions and if it costs you more to fix your lawn mower they really could care less. Your politician is only interested in what the Washington based lawyer lobbiest is giving them.

It's pretty expensive to run a bass boat on avgas.

 

[printcraft]

It's pretty expensive to run a bass boat on avgas.

Yeah, but it makes those suckers fly across the water.

 

[Leadeye]

It's pretty expensive to run a bass boat on avgas.

Ouch! Forgot about 2 cycle engines on boats. Never saw one of those that was not thirsty or expensive to repair.

 

[Hop]

You guys are way over-reacting to this.

I've been running E85 (85% Ethanol compared to the 15% mentioned in this thread) in my turbocharged Eagle Talon 2.0L 4 banger since 2006. It LOVES it. The car make over 650HP to the wheels. C16 leaded race gas cannot make the same power.

Yes, Ethanol can damage some seals, fuel pumps, bare aluminum and rubber hoses but it's not nearly as aggressive as you all are thinking.

Yes it can cause a slight decrease in MPG but it also has a cooling effect that can help in a lot of situations (towing, hot climate, racing, etc).

It will not harm an O2 sensor.

Running E85 takes ~30% more fuel volume than straight gas so going from 10% to 15% is negligible. 3% maybe.

Besides... who would you rather send your dollars to? A US farmer or a middle Eastern Sheik?

 

[tenring]

Fail!