EPD says: "Don't carry a gun"

[TheDude]

Once again you've lost your common sense!

If you've ever been to a training session of any kind you will find its only possible to teach as fast as the weakest person in the group. If it's an older person or a very young person .... doesn't matter. You must talk on the level or train on the level of the weakest person. I doubt the police department will tell you this information but I'm sharing it with you. So, it's not possible to give blanket personal safety information without taking this concept into consideration. Not everyone will work as hard to be firearm proficient as those on this forum thus we cannot expect everyone to carry a gun to protect themselves. Hell, there are those who wish to remain sheep and that is of their own doing. The police department must talk with these sheep and give tips they can understand. There is still a certain amount of responsibility to talk with the oldest and youngest of our community to make them understand there are common sense things you can do to reduce your chances of becoming a victim. WE on this forum have chosen to carry a firearm to protect our families. We practice IDPA, IPSC, USPSA, and plink at the range to become familiar with our weapons just in case we need to use them. It is obvious that not all the safety tips apply to us but some of them are still useful.

As you read the police information, take from it what you feel is good or and throw away what you feel is poor or doesn't apply to you. Your post only shows your distain for the police.

Oh … I’ve been wanting to ask: where you work?

Then maybe it should be...dont carry a gun etc. unless you are properly trained.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Once again you've lost your common sense!

If you've ever been to a training session of any kind you will find its only possible to teach as fast as the weakest person in the group. If it's an older person or a very young person .... doesn't matter. You must talk on the level or train on the level of the weakest person. I doubt the police department will tell you this information but I'm sharing it with you. So, it's not possible to give blanket personal safety information without taking this concept into consideration. Not everyone will work as hard to be firearm proficient as those on this forum thus we cannot expect everyone to carry a gun to protect themselves. Hell, there are those who wish to remain sheep and that is of their own doing. The police department must talk with these sheep and give tips they can understand. There is still a certain amount of responsibility to talk with the oldest and youngest of our community to make them understand there are common sense things you can do to reduce your chances of becoming a victim. WE on this forum have chosen to carry a firearm to protect our families. We practice IDPA, IPSC, USPSA, and plink at the range to become familiar with our weapons just in case we need to use them.

No, go back and read it. It is CLEARLY using fear and intimidation to keep people from being armed with tools that can defend them. Do you think that the majority of people are retarded or something? that they are incapable of using common tools the way they were intended?

It is obvious that not all the safety tips apply to us but some of them are still useful.

Then they need to make it clear that isn't really what they meant. They meant "Some are more equal than others" right?

As you read the police information, take from it what you feel is good or and throw away what you feel is poor or doesn't apply to you. Your post only shows your distain for the police.

I plan to since I have a brain and think for myself but thanks for the advice. My post shows that the previous administration can be improved upon and it has one idea I have that can help. I didn't make a blanket statement about police or anyone. I didn't single anyone out either. The only thing I get from it is that no matter what cops feel like people who question something are an enemy. Use some of your detective skills and realize that picking a fight with me is not smart. We are NOT enemies and I am NOT attacking you. I believe that some public accountability does any public office good and I think that our new police chief has his work cut out for him. Unfortunately his track record has not impressed me so far and it appears it is business as usual.

Oh … I’ve been wanting to ask: where [do] you work?

What does that have to do with anything? You going to stalk me there too?

 

[Sabreur]

Here is my letter:

I would like a clarification on one of your "safety tips" in the "away from home" catagory. It states that it is NOT recommended to carry a gun, knife, club, chemical spray, or other weapon becasue they may be illegal and can be used against me. Then what DO you recommend I do with robberies, home break ins, and meth users running rampant in our city? Why do your officers carry all of the above during their daily duties every single day they are on duty and almost all of them carry at least a handgun when they are off duty?
How does this recommendation make any sense when right above it, it recommends I take a self defense course but doesn't want me to defend myself using the best ways possible to ensure my protection. Indiana has a tradition of being self reliant and we have state laws that enable us to protect ourselves using deadly force if necessary when we face a threat that could kill or severely injure us. We now have state preemption of firearm laws that restricts municipalities and their political subdivisions from making, enforcing or by nature of action any policy, law, or ordinance that supercedes state law.
I would think a correction to these "safety tips" is in order and I await a response.
Sincerely,
Ben

Me like!

 

[Bunnykid68]

Once again you've lost your common sense!

If you've ever been to a training session of any kind you will find its only possible to teach as fast as the weakest person in the group. If it's an older person or a very young person .... doesn't matter. You must talk on the level or train on the level of the weakest person. I doubt the police department will tell you this information but I'm sharing it with you. So, it's not possible to give blanket personal safety information without taking this concept into consideration. Not everyone will work as hard to be firearm proficient as those on this forum thus we cannot expect everyone to carry a gun to protect themselves. Hell, there are those who wish to remain sheep and that is of their own doing. The police department must talk with these sheep and give tips they can understand. There is still a certain amount of responsibility to talk with the oldest and youngest of our community to make them understand there are common sense things you can do to reduce your chances of becoming a victim. WE on this forum have chosen to carry a firearm to protect our families. We practice IDPA, IPSC, USPSA, and plink at the range to become familiar with our weapons just in case we need to use them. It is obvious that not all the safety tips apply to us but some of them are still useful.

As you read the police information, take from it what you feel is good or and throw away what you feel is poor or doesn't apply to you. Your post only shows your distain for the police.

Oh … I’ve been wanting to ask: where you work?

According to what I read, it looks like the police department does not want anyone trying to protect themselves with the exception of run away and call the police.

 

[rgrimm01]

Then maybe it should be...dont carry a gun etc. unless you are properly trained.

...and there's the rub. Too many times we have seen [attempts of] gun control under the guise of "training" or "need". Who would determine just what constitutes proper training? (Sarah) Brady Center? Public poll? The state of Illinois or California? The military and which branch? No thank you. How about the one that is responsible for the safety of my family and myself, which would be me.
The police are to protect and serve the public as a whole, not the individual. Any immediate threat must be dealt with by me or like minded individuals. I wonder how many third party people have been injured or killed while a party is defending themselves or someone else due to improper training? I wonder how many people have been injured or killed due to no one having the means to defend themselves (excluding a whistle which we all know strikes fear into all gun brandishing bad guys)?
I can remember when my Lady and I were sitting in a Hardees in small town Indiana (not a slam, I am from a different small town Indiana and would have it no other way). After having taken our seats, she saw a couple of guys in camo OCing at another table ( I believe it was hunting season at the time but not neccessarily). She alerted me of her observation which I think I responded with a nod. She asked me if I was not concerned. I responded that at that time, we were possibly at the safest place in the country.
I cannot help but wonder if the very people who would bemoan the fact that armed citizens are in their midst , had a love one in harm's way defended by such a person, if their first reaction would be to question if the person had proper training or to display gratitude? hmmm...

 

[TheDude]

...and there's the rub. Too many times we have seen [attempts of] gun control under the guise of "training" or "need". Who would determine just what constitutes proper training? (Sarah) Brady Center? Public poll? The state of Illinois or California? The military and which branch? No thank you. How about the one that is responsible for the safety of my family and myself, which would be me.
The police are to protect and serve the public as a whole, not the individual. Any immediate threat must be dealt with by me or like minded individuals. I wonder how many third party people have been injured or killed while a party is defending themselves or someone else due to improper training? I wonder how many people have been injured or killed due to no one having the means to defend themselves (excluding a whistle which we all know strikes fear into all gun brandishing bad guys)?
I can remember when my Lady and I were sitting in a Hardees in small town Indiana (not a slam, I am from a different small town Indiana and would have it no other way). After having taken our seats, she saw a couple of guys in camo OCing at another table ( I believe it was hunting season at the time but not neccessarily). She alerted me of her observation which I think I responded with a nod. She asked me if I was not concerned. I responded that at that time, we were possibly at the safest place in the country.
I cannot help but wonder if the very people who would bemoan the fact that armed citizens are in their midst , had a love one in harm's way defended by such a person, if their first reaction would be to question if the person had proper training or to display gratitude? hmmm...

Well...I meant it as a suggestion and not as a state-controlled requirement. Lets face it, some people need some kinda training or familarization with firearms and it can be simply left up to them to seek it out. Not everybody has that significant person in their life to give them good instruction. Hell, I was in the military with several guys whose first exposure to firearms was an M16.

 

[24Carat]

M16 in basic was a bit of an "arousing" experience wasn't it ?

 

[mrortega]

M16 in basic was a bit of an "arousing" experience wasn't it ?

Especially when some dipsh** nco decides the rifle you are firing prone needs to be cooled down and squirts some oil onto the barrel through the holes in the upper hand guard thereby blistering your support hand when it runs out of the BOTTOM FREAKIN' HOLES, YOU MORON!!!!

 

[fenderpbass]

I usually carry concealed in Evansville. I always try to be aware of my surroundings.

 

[lrahm]

I usually carry concealed in Evansville. I always try to be aware of my surroundings.

Good thought. I don't want to sound parinoid but I always look inside a place I am entering just to see who is there. On the way home I stop a a local "stop and rob". I always look to see if the help is visable before I enter. I also cc, I am told I have to. I also don't want to be a target as soon as I walk in. We had a bank robbery here several years ago. A uniformed deputy was working there off duty. Guess who was the first one shot.

Now, I don't care if you CC or OC, it's now the law. We all have to abide by the laws of Indiana.

 

[Hammerhead]

Good thought. I don't want to sound parinoid but I always look inside a place I am entering just to see who is there. On the way home I stop a a local "stop and rob". I always look to see if the help is visable before I enter. I also cc, I am told I have to. I also don't want to be a target as soon as I walk in. We had a bank robbery here several years ago. A uniformed deputy was working there off duty. Guess who was the first one shot.

Now, I don't care if you CC or OC, it's now the law. We all have to abide by the laws of Indiana.

I get what you're trying to say, but the way you're saying it leaves much to be desired. Yes, it is not unexpected that a uniformed deputy working security at a bank would be the first one focused on by a BG. He represents the greatest visible point of authority. Walk into anywhere and try not to notice the one guy in full uniform with his utility belt and badge.

As far as being a target as soon as you walk in, I see the need to always be aware of your surroundings. You look into a building, if possible, to give a threat assessment. But you can't say that OCing means immediate target. Of all the places that all the people on this board who regularly OC walk into, I have not heard or experienced myself any issue with immediately being targeted.

It is an illogical fallacy that OC = target. You may be trained and required to CC off duty, but that does not mean that those who choose not to regularly are in any more danger because they don't.

I have seen regularly your "OC or CC, I don't care just carry" advice and I applaud you for (seemingly) standing apart from your department or at least some numbskull in your department.

 

[thebishopp]

Good thought. I don't want to sound parinoid but I always look inside a place I am entering just to see who is there. On the way home I stop a a local "stop and rob". I always look to see if the help is visable before I enter. I also cc, I am told I have to. I also don't want to be a target as soon as I walk in. We had a bank robbery here several years ago. A uniformed deputy was working there off duty. Guess who was the first one shot.

Now, I don't care if you CC or OC, it's now the law. We all have to abide by the laws of Indiana.

Not paranoid at all... in fact I am assuming (and hope) they are still teaching the importance of knowing what the heck is going on around you in training.

Situational Awareness is one of the most important things to be "practicing".

One of the problems I noticed in law enforcement is that one tends to get lax over a period of time and situational awareness takes a backseat to the monotony of daily life.


Now I don't know what happened in that bank robbery but I would be willing to bet that the deputy had probably worked that job more than once and most of his time there (or at similar jobs) had been uneventful. Even if he had not, there is a pretty good chance that right up to the robbery it had been a monotonous day and he probably let his "situational awareness" lax. Happens to security a lot as well. Boring job, nothing going on for days, weeks, months, years, then that one day things go south and they are taken by surprise because they weren't paying the attention that they should have.

Regardless of whether you oc or cc one needs to be aware of what is happening around you.

 

[macindynet]

(...this is the sound of me scratching 'Evansville' off my list of places I will drive through, get gas at, pick up groceries from, or frequent any businesses therein...)

 

[lrahm]

I get what you're trying to say, but the way you're saying it leaves much to be desired. Yes, it is not unexpected that a uniformed deputy working security at a bank would be the first one focused on by a BG. He represents the greatest visible point of authority. Walk into anywhere and try not to notice the one guy in full uniform with his utility belt and badge.

As far as being a target as soon as you walk in, I see the need to always be aware of your surroundings. You look into a building, if possible, to give a threat assessment. But you can't say that OCing means immediate target. Of all the places that all the people on this board who regularly OC walk into, I have not heard or experienced myself any issue with immediately being targeted.

It is an illogical fallacy that OC = target. You may be trained and required to CC off duty, but that does not mean that those who choose not to regularly are in any more danger because they don't.

I have seen regularly your "OC or CC, I don't care just carry" advice and I applaud you for (seemingly) standing apart from your department or at least some numbskull in your department.

Hammerhead, this is what I have to do. My boss tells me to cc on and off duty. I have to abide by his wishes or suffer the consequences. I don't think that OC = target but you have to admit that if you walked into a holdup you would be perceived as a threat to the bad guys. They will already have their guns out. Not trying to argue, I understand your points and have read a bunch of your posts.

 

[lrahm]

Not paranoid at all... in fact I am assuming (and hope) they are still teaching the importance of knowing what the heck is going on around you in training.

Situational Awareness is one of the most important things to be "practicing".

One of the problems I noticed in law enforcement is that one tends to get lax over a period of time and situational awareness takes a backseat to the monotony of daily life.


Now I don't know what happened in that bank robbery but I would be willing to bet that the deputy had probably worked that job more than once and most of his time there (or at similar jobs) had been uneventful. Even if he had not, there is a pretty good chance that right up to the robbery it had been a monotonous day and he probably let his "situational awareness" lax. Happens to security a lot as well. Boring job, nothing going on for days, weeks, months, years, then that one day things go south and they are taken by surprise because they weren't paying the attention that they should have.

Regardless of whether you oc or cc one needs to be aware of what is happening around you.

Everyone (even if you don't carry) needs to be more aware of their surroundings. Bad guys look for easy targets. That is a fact.

The deputy was working and only had a second to react. But you are more than likely right about being too relaxed and too bored.

 

[thebishopp]

Everyone (even if you don't carry) needs to be more aware of their surroundings. Bad guys look for easy targets. That is a fact.

The deputy was working and only had a second to react. But you are more than likely right about being too relaxed and too bored.

Yes agreed. I mainly referenced law enforcement and security type professions because, due to their very nature, will tend to be "targets" right off the bat. That uniform, more so then the gun, is primarily (imo) what does it.

To this day I still don't like sitting with my back towards a door and tend to always watch people entering or exiting an establishment (when I'm in it of course, I don't drive around randomly watching people lol).

 

[templar223]

I stopped for gas on in EVV on the way back from GA on New Year's Eve and thought I was gonna be accosted by a guy who was clearly under the influence of something besides stupid. I was going to the back door to grab my jacket but saw I clearly didn't have time to get it and put it on before he was on me, so I turned and squared off on him.

About ten feet away, he abruptly turned and began walking towards to door of the gas station, then stopped, picked up an unsmoked cigarette on the ground then looked around with a 1000-yard stare.

In hind-sight, I should have had my mom get in the car and drive to the next station, but after ten hours of driving, sometimes you're a little toasty.

I write this little missive because I thought Evansville was a hunky-dory place. Boy, was I wrong.

I was DARN GLAD I had my G17 on my belt as I noticed a few other unsavory types hanging around as I was leaving.

For EVV police to say "don't carry a gun" is, IMHO, malpractice.

John

 

[hopper68]

Evansville is not that bad. I was on a trip down in Alabama and run the tank almost empty looking for an acceptable place to stop. Finally on fumes I stopped in a station that was not too busy so I could watch out more easily. The windows and door had bars over them and the counter was filled with business cards from bail bondsmen. I figured they give you a card when you robbed the place.

 

[mrortega]

I can see scenarios where a uniformed PO doesn't have much of a chance against a determined robber. A perp just has to walk in not showing a weapon. The PO can't do much except "feel" that something isn't right. The perp walks up and pops him in the back or side. It's over before he can even react. A cop in uniform isn't there to shoot it out with the Barrow gang but just scare off the average punk who may go somewhere else.

 

[avengedXT]

Haven't read nearly any of the replies. But in my opinion, this is ridiculous. The town sounds like it has too much confidence in itself. Or they had some interesting herbs smoking up the room while they were writing this.