Elkhart County Fair: OC/CC, NC?

[TaunTaun]

I know this resurrects a previous discussion... ( https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...d_amendment/207903-carry_at_county_fairs.html )

The fair here is starting this week and the last few years, there have been some pretty big signs declaring "No Weapons!" at the various entrances.

Now, the general information that has been gone over so far is:

Elkhart County fairgrounds is public property.
Fairgrounds are leased out to various groups year round, and they run their gatherings with a varying degree of 2nd Amendment friendliness.

Fairgrounds are also pretty heavily patrolled by both Sheriff and local police.


I don't know if I'll make it out this year (wife is 7 months pregnant, and this hot weather is making her miserable, not to mention finances are tight in preperation of bill paying, baby stuff, life, etc. ), but I want to keep an eye on how things are going.

For those of us in the area: (Reports please if you find out anything)

Do you think those No Weapons signs will still be there at the gates?

Do you think the county will attempt to prevent anyone OC'ing from entering?

Do you think the local PD's will have a reasonable response if they catch anyone CC'ing slip out a little into view?

Does anyone think the fairboard and the county are reasonably justified in preventing any of the patrons from defending themselves if something like what happened at the Wisconsin State Fair goes down?


Comments?

 

[Hoosierdood]

The Elkhart County Fair grounds are owned by the county. However, they are leased out to the 4-H Fair board for the duration of the fair. Therefore, the property becomes private property. They can make any rule that they want. Several years ago, I was CC at the Elkhart Fair, but wearing a Glock t-shirt. A county LEO approached me and asked if I was carrying, which I answered in the affirmative. He then asked me to take it back to my vehicle.

Couple things to remember:
1. They can post No Firearms signs (and probably will)
2. They can ask you to leave if you carry
3. OC is most likely a no-go
4. If caught CC'ing, you will most likely just be asked to return it to your vehicle.

For the record, I OC'ed last year at the Marshall County Fair, which was NOT posted, and I was still confronted and asked to leave.

Story here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...h_fair_1_marshall_county_reserve_officer.html
Update here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...016-update_on_oc_at_marshall_county_fair.html

 

[eldirector]

Well, from your linked thread, the fairgrounds is private property, and the fair itself is run by a non-profit organization. As such, they can have whatever policies they want, and work with the local LE to have them enforced. The county fair board really has no standing in this matter.

So, to answer your specific questions:
- I suspect the entrances are still posted "No Weapons"
- I doubt the COUNTY will attempt to prevent OC, but the property owners may very well
- I suspect the local PD will be reasonable in respecting the property owner's wishes if they "catch" anyone concealing
- I don't believe the fair board and county are involved in setting the policy, so cannot be held accountable if "something goes down". It IS unfortunate that the property owners rely solely on local LE for security, and attempt to disarm otherwise lawful carriers (and therefor only allow cops and crooks to be armed).

 

[TaunTaun]

Followup question then. Is the Elkhart County Fair board a public entity or a private? If it is private, I can see the property rights argument being used to restrict carrying while there, but if it is a public entity then they should have no power to discriminate as such.

 

[TaunTaun]

Another question then. Fairboard opened up part of the new property for building a shooting range for the gun club. Can they then really say "No firearms allowed" then?

 

[mdemetz]

I've seen the No Firearms sign on one of the gates. It is hard to see when the gate is swung open as it is most of the time.

 

[youngda9]

OC and you're guaranteed to be thrown out. I look forward to you rushing back here to tell us all about it. I made that purple, I hope that was the right color

 

[eldirector]

From some brief Googling, it appears that the Elkhart County Fair Board is a private non-profit organization.

 

[TaunTaun]

From some brief Googling, it appears that the Elkhart County Fair Board is a private non-profit organization.

Pretty well clinches that the correct answer here is CC and don't get caught.

 

[Bill B]

Followup question then. Is the Elkhart County Fair board a public entity or a private? If it is private, I can see the property rights argument being used to restrict carrying while there, but if it is a public entity then they should have no power to discriminate as such.

Well, as the correct name is "Elkhart County 4-H Fair" I would assume that it is private, run by the 4H clubs.

 

[TaunTaun]

Well, as the correct name is "Elkhart County 4-H Fair" I would assume that it is private, run by the 4H clubs.

Using that same logic, having an event officially sponsored by the local governmental unit screams PUBLIC! to me.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Under IC 35-47-11.1-4(10)(A), it doesn't matter that the real estate is publicly owned, a fact that does not change when rented by a private entity. It matters who promotes or organizes the event. They are free to implement and enforce rules of admission and conduct which may include anti-RKBA rules. The political subdivision may then, presumably at the behest of the promoter/organizer and not unilaterally, enforce such rules, but that does not mean that rules violations rise to the level of criminal violations. If agents of the political subdivision are acting as agents of the promoter/organizer, then they would also be free to eject you from the fairgrounds for rules violations, and if you refuse, have you arrested for trespassing, which if they are also police officers will be pretty damn convenient.

The issues surrounding criminal trespass has been discussed ad nauseum in the threads regarding gun-buster signs on business entrances.

As has been said, CC and don't get caught.

My question is whether there is ANY county in Indiana which has a county fair which is promoted and organized entirely by a public entity under which -11.1(4)(10) would not permit the banning of firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition.

 

[marcum man]

.

For the record, I OC'ed last year at the Marshall County Fair, which was NOT posted, and I was still confronted and asked to leave.]

It is posted at the Marshall County fair. I CC'd there a couple of days ago.

 

[coyn]

I plan on going to one of the concerts at the Elkhart County fair while CC'ing this week. I'll report back anything that I may see and/or happens.

 

[mdemetz]

Using that same logic, having an event officially sponsored by the local governmental unit screams PUBLIC! to me.

They do not sponsor it.
A co-worker is on the fair board and it is a private organization that owns the property. They do not even release their finacial information.

Another question then. Fairboard opened up part of the new property for building a shooting range for the gun club. Can they then really say "No firearms allowed" then?

The range is outside of the main fenced area and parking lots and so far only available to 4H members.

 

[Expat]

I sometimes carry concealed there but good lord when it is 95, that is pretty tough. The signs stay up all the time and the roving LEOs enforce the rule as I have seen them do it.