DON’T Call 911, And DON’T “Help” the Police

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • ATF Consumer

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 23, 2008
    4,628
    36
    South Side Indy
    Yet Again: DON’T Call 911, And DON’T “Help” the Police

    Posted by William Grigg on January 7, 2010 03:03 PM
    “Little did he know what awaited him when he called 911 that day.”
    That phrase would be a suitable obituary for many innocent people who have died at the hands of their supposed “protectors.” In this case, it was spoken in despair by defense attorney Marisa Bender as she addressed a jury in Bremerton, Washington. Bender represented 37-year-old Luke T. Groves, who was eventually convicted of “unlawful possession of a firearm” in a case that displays, in remarkable detail, the distilled malignancy of the “justice” system.
    As a teenager twenty years ago, Groves was convicted of burglary after breaking into a school. As a felon he was subject to a lifetime prohibition on the exercise of his innate right to armed self-defense.
    In November 2008, Groves made the tragic mistake of calling the police after someone broke into his home. During the phone call Groves compounded his error by informing the police that his wife Rebecca owned a rifle and a shotgun, which she had purchased before they got married in 2003.
    As is usually (for practical purposes, we could round up to “always”) the case, the police were of no use in protecting Groves’ home. Once they had arrived, they requested to see his wife’s guns, and Groves — committing his third mistake — compliantly led them to the bedroom, where they were kept for self-defense.
    The police were of no help in finding the criminal who violated Groves’ home, but they led him away from the scene in handcuffs.
    Despite the fact that the guns belonged to his wife; despite the fact that he had never been notified that he was subject to a lifetime ban on personal gun ownership; despite the fact that he was a federally employed firefighter entrusted to use explosives as part of his job — Groves was found “guilty” of the charge and awaits sentencing on January 29.
    Judge Sally Olsen refused to permit Groves to present critical evidence in his defense. The jury wasn’t allowed to know that he was authorized to use explosives as a federal employee, or that under state law at the time of his conviction no notice was given of a lifetime ban on firearms ownership.
    Olsen seemed determined to tailor the trial to accommodate the case presented by Deputy Prosecutor Giovanna Mosca, who insisted that the only significant question was whether Groves had the guns in his “dominion or control.”
    To his considerable credit, Groves turned down a plea bargain agreement that would have avoided jail time. Unfortunately, he apparently acted in the misplaced confidence that, first, the “system” would display an interest in justice, and second, that he would be permitted to present a defense before a jury composed of something other than collectivist drones.
    Rebecca Groves now faces the prospect of becoming a temporary single mother to the couple’s 4-year-old daughter, Sophim. She is understandably puzzled as to how her husband can be convicted of a “crime” because of guns she bought before they were married. “I did not become a felon by marrying him,” she observes.
    This underscores a critical point: Under what the people persecuting her family are pleased to call the “law,” she would have to be disarmed because of her husband’s teenage felony.
    Here’s something else to consider: Had Groves made the mistake of enlisting in the military, Leviathan would have permitted him, while carrying out various lethal errands on its behalf, to keep and bear the firearms he wouldn’t be allowed to own as a private citizen.:n00b:
     

    Eddie

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 28, 2009
    3,730
    38
    North of Terre Haute
    What strikes me about this case and others like it is the "zero tolerance/heavy hammer" treatment that so many people are getting from the system. What happened to discretion? Unless there are some more facts to this that we don't know about it seems odd. The guy is a firefighter, so it sounds like he is an upstanding member of the community and he is the victim of a crime. Why not say "hey dude, you're a convicted felon, you otta get those guns out of the house" or why couldn't the prosecutor just let the arrest be the lesson and not file charges. With the conviction and incarceration he will likely now lose his job. This is an aspect of our criminal justice system that has really started to bother me; once a person gets sucked into it there seems to be a relentless drive not to correct behavior or to teach a lesson but rather to destroy people. Not all defendants are the same. Sure, some deserve to get the full treatment, but why this guy?
     

    Lex Concord

    Not so well-known member
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    27   0   0
    Dec 4, 2008
    4,499
    83
    Morgan County
    What strikes me about this case and others like it is the "zero tolerance/heavy hammer" treatment that so many people are getting from the system. What happened to discretion? Unless there are some more facts to this that we don't know about it seems odd. The guy is a firefighter, so it sounds like he is an upstanding member of the community and he is the victim of a crime. Why not say "hey dude, you're a convicted felon, you otta get those guns out of the house" or why couldn't the prosecutor just let the arrest be the lesson and not file charges. With the conviction and incarceration he will likely now lose his job. This is an aspect of our criminal justice system that has really started to bother me; once a person gets sucked into it there seems to be a relentless drive not to correct behavior or to teach a lesson but rather to destroy people. Not all defendants are the same. Sure, some deserve to get the full treatment, but why this guy?

    I may be wrong, but it seems like the zero tolerance crap started with the war on drugs and minimum mandatory sentences.
     

    Carrion

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 2, 2009
    13
    1
    The War on Drugs, the War on Terror, and the Clinton era abuse of the commerce clause are the primary avenues by which our civil rights have been infringed.

    Those following the health care debate have seen a return to that last trick.
     

    Eddie

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 28, 2009
    3,730
    38
    North of Terre Haute
    War

    We use catch phrases like War on Drugs or Zero Tolerance and then we try to substitute absolute rules for common sense and discretion. First offenders used to get a break, now they get absolutely crushed. I am a firm believer that 99% of us can learn from a second chance or take a warning to heart. The 1% that doesn't will re-offend and get caught. You don't hear about cops driving kids home to their parents anymore or prosecutors letting off a first time offender. Its become too much of a numbers game and its pervasive to the system. I don't understand where protecting the community turned into "arrest everybody".
     

    groovatron

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Oct 9, 2009
    3,270
    38
    calumet township
    A felon with guns in the house, right there in front of an officer's face, would be a much easier collar than chasing down some thieves.

    If you have the patience to sit through The Largest Street Gang in America Video by BoilingFrogs - MySpace Video you'll see that most of the people in it were actually trying to get help from the police when things went bad for them.

    I think I'll head to my local PD and see if they got any compaint forms. Just out of curiosity.:cool:
     

    Dryden

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 5, 2009
    2,589
    36
    N.E. Indianapolis
    I think I'll head to my local PD and see if they got any compaint forms. Just out of curiosity.:cool:


    Good luck. I don't think that would be a wise decision. It looks like cops have lost all their sense of community and have taken on an US AGAINST THEM approach.
    I moved here from NY five years ago and quickly learned NEVER to say "Good Morning officer." I'd get a mad expression and a "What'd you just say to me!!!"
    I'm 55 and disabled.... do I look like a threat to police? I guess I must be.:dunno:
     

    tom1025

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    27   0   0
    Mar 6, 2009
    2,101
    38
    Underground
    There has to be more to the story. First responders usually stick together. However I am not a fellon but dosnt the law state your not allowed to own or be around firearms?
     

    GlockRock

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 3, 2009
    1,180
    38
    Good luck. I don't think that would be a wise decision. It looks like cops have lost all their sense of community and have taken on an US AGAINST THEM approach.
    I moved here from NY five years ago and quickly learned NEVER to say "Good Morning officer." I'd get a mad expression and a "What'd you just say to me!!!"
    I'm 55 and disabled.... do I look like a threat to police? I guess I must be.:dunno:

    Being a LEO, I take offense to your comments. I dont have the "us against them" approach that you mention. Also, if you would say good morning to me I would say it back. Don't lump us all together like you did.
     

    techres

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Industry Partner
    Rating - 100%
    27   0   0
    Mar 14, 2008
    6,479
    38
    1
    Being a LEO, I take offense to your comments. I dont have the "us against them" approach that you mention. Also, if you would say good morning to me I would say it back. Don't lump us all together like you did.

    Personally, I have had nothing but good interactions where I live. Very quick on the response time the few times I have needed response, and otherwise very nice guys & gals.

    They even turned all of my gun forms (LTCH, Form 1, Form 2) around in under 48 hours and wished me well.
     

    R3ydium

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 14, 2009
    156
    16
    Noblesville
    We use catch phrases like War on Drugs or Zero Tolerance and then we try to substitute absolute rules for common sense and discretion. First offenders used to get a break, now they get absolutely crushed. I am a firm believer that 99% of us can learn from a second chance or take a warning to heart. The 1% that doesn't will re-offend and get caught. You don't hear about cops driving kids home to their parents anymore or prosecutors letting off a first time offender. Its become too much of a numbers game and its pervasive to the system. I don't understand where protecting the community turned into "arrest everybody".

    I’m reminded of a verse of one of my favorite songs (…and justice for all) “Hammer of justice crushes you”

    First, I think (In Indiana especially) the things that qualify as a felony can be steep at times. Technically by Indiana law, walking out of a store with a pack of gum you forgot to pay for could be charged as a felony. A class D felony, which, by the way is the same level felony of things like Child Seduction, etc . . . So by Indiana law, petty theft is charged at the same level as child seduction.

    I agree 100% with the above mentioned comment. I believe a vast majority of people do NOT turn into repeat offenders.

    I know a guy who made a mistake and stole a TV from his employer. He got 15 minutes down the road, and felt HORRIBLE about It. He turned around, returned the TV, and openly admitted, and ask for forgiveness from his employer. The employer called the police, and now 2 years later, he’s a convicted felon. – Was he wrong? YES!. Does he deserve to be a “felon” the rest of his life? NO, not in my opinion.
     

    littletommy

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 29, 2009
    13,637
    113
    A holler in Kentucky
    Being a LEO, I take offense to your comments. I dont have the "us against them" approach that you mention. Also, if you would say good morning to me I would say it back. Don't lump us all together like you did.
    I agree, there are good and bad in every walk of life, and everybody has a bad day occasionally. When a cop has a bad day, it can get really bad, really fast. I have noticed also, that the younger generation of cops seems to be a little different. For instance, where I live out of the 35 or so cops on the force, I personally know 25 of em' played softball with em, grew up with some of em, and I've never seen or heard of any these guys being abusive towards anybody, and there are very few, if any, young (under 30) cops on the force. There is a small town a few miles north of here, that has almost as many cops as my town, but isn't a quarter of the size, and I would say the average age of these guys is mid to late 20's, and it is hell trying to get through that town. They will stop anybody for anything, and they dont give warnings, it's all about how much money they bring in, and it is no secret. I work near there, and with a lot of guys who live there, and there is a deep hatred for the cops in that town, and I can understand it. Its just like in any other walk of life, for instance, gun owners, you usually only hear about, and take notice of, the idiots. Maybe thats where dryden gets his sentiment from.
     

    rambone

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 3, 2009
    18,745
    83
    'Merica
    We use catch phrases like War on Drugs or Zero Tolerance and then we try to substitute absolute rules for common sense and discretion. First offenders used to get a break, now they get absolutely crushed. I am a firm believer that 99% of us can learn from a second chance or take a warning to heart. The 1% that doesn't will re-offend and get caught. You don't hear about cops driving kids home to their parents anymore or prosecutors letting off a first time offender. Its become too much of a numbers game and its pervasive to the system. I don't understand where protecting the community turned into "arrest everybody".

    :+1:


    There is a small town a few miles north of here, that has almost as many cops as my town, but isn't a quarter of the size, and I would say the average age of these guys is mid to late 20's, and it is hell trying to get through that town. They will stop anybody for anything, and they dont give warnings, it's all about how much money they bring in, and it is no secret. I work near there, and with a lot of guys who live there, and there is a deep hatred for the cops in that town, and I can understand it. Its just like in any other walk of life, for instance, gun owners, you usually only hear about, and take notice of, the idiots. Maybe thats where dryden gets his sentiment from.

    Which town?
     

    EdC

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Aug 12, 2008
    965
    18
    Speedway, IN
    In November 2008, Groves made the tragic mistake of calling the police after someone broke into his home. During the phone call Groves compounded his error by informing the police that his wife Rebecca owned a rifle and a shotgun, which she had purchased before they got married in 2003.

    As other posters have indicated, I don't think we have the whole story. How does one go from calling 911 to report a break in, and then when the cops show up, say "By the way, my wife owns a rifle and a shotgun." From the story, you can't tell whether the firearms came into play in the break in incident at all. Just puzzling to me, on the info we have.
     
    Top Bottom