DNR- private property

[Greg.B]

Respect tends to be a mutual thing, unless you have something to hide.

/\ This

We have conservation officers randomly check the land we hunt on several times a year, and we appreciate them doing so. We've never requested they do it, they just do. After checking us personally a couple of times, and showing some respect and appreciation to them, it's become a pleasant relationship, and we have a lot fewer trespassers year round. The've been known to stop by the truck and share a cup of mid morning coffee, and once they even took down a stand and left it at the base of one of ours along with a note explaining the 'gift'.

 

[Field King]

Can someone please show me Constitutional exceptions for C.Os? They are bound by the same laws all peace officers must adhere to, are they not? If not please show actual stautes or laws/constitutional exceptions please?

 

[jeremy]

Respect tends to be a mutual thing, unless you have something to hide.

Respect...

I think that might start on their side more so than mine...

I am pretty fortunate that the CO for my area tends to stop by and ask permission before tromping across my property. We have an understanding between us though.

A CO just tromping across my property and harassing me and mine...
Not a whole lot of respect going back that way there...

 

[pftraining_in]

Conservation Officers and State Troopers are one and the same when it comes to enforcement powers and enforcing the laws of Indiana. Conservation Officers specialize in enforcement of boating, fishing and game laws while Troopers specialize in the enforcement of traffic laws.

State Police Officers (Conservation Officers and Trooper) can only enforce federal and state laws making them the least powerful LE in Indiana. Municipal officers (city police officers and town marshals) and Sheriff Departments have more enforcement powers as they can enforce state, federal and local/county ordinances.

Any police officer in the state of Indiana can enforce game laws, however most are not familiar or comfortable enough with the laws to enforce them. All police officers are bound by the same laws and rules of the courts.

If an officer is on your property checking your license, they are there typically under reasonable suspicion, not probable cause.

PROBABLE CAUSE

A reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime. The test the court of appeals employs to determine whether probable cause existed for purposes of arrest is whether facts and circumstances within the officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. U.S. v. Puerta, 982 F.2d 1297, 1300 (9th Cir. 1992). In terms of seizure of items, probable cause merely requires that the facts available to the officer warrants a "man of reasonable caution" to conclude that certain items may be contraband or stolen property or useful as evidence of a crime. U.S. v. Dunn, 946 F.2d 615, 619 (9th Cir. 1991), cert. Denied, 112 S. Ct. 401 (1992).
It is undisputed that the Fourth Amendment, applicable to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment, prohibits an officer from making an arrest without probable cause. McKenzie v. Lamb, 738 F.2d 1005, 1007 (9th Cir. 1984). Probable cause exists when "the facts and circumstances within the arresting officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe that a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime." United States v. Hoyos, 892 F.2d 1387, 1392 (9th Cir. 1989), cert. denied, 489 U.S. 825 (1990) (citing United States v. Greene, 783 F.2d 1364, 1367 (9th Cir. 1986), cert. denied, 476 U.S. 1185 (1986)).
When there are grounds for suspicion that a person has committed a crime or misdemeanor, and public justice and the good of the community require that the matter should be examined, there is said to be a probable cause for, making a charge against the accused, however malicious the intention of the accuser may have been. And probable cause will be presumed till the contrary appears.
In an action, then, for a malicious prosecution, the plaintiff is bound to show total absence of probable cause, whether the original proceedings were civil or criminal.



Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. It is the basis for an investigatory or Terry stop by the police and requires less evidence than probable cause, the legal requirement for arrests and warrants. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch. Police may also, based solely on reasonable suspicion of a threat to safety, frisk a suspect for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. A combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous, can form the basis of reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion is also sometimes called "arguable suspicion

 

[360]

Better be pretty sure who you are talking to when you are deciding the tone to take.

HNF has their own law enforcement. I'm pretty sure they are feds and I KNOW they carry guns and the ONE I have met is a pretty frigging serious dude. Not much comedy or joking around in any conversation I've had with him. It's OK with me though, just don't take it to heart like he's mad about something. It's just the way he is far as I can tell.

Are they the guys that drive the white explorers with green lettering that says Law Enforcement (something or another) on them? I think the logo has trees or something on it too. I see a truck like that around Bloomington every so often.

 

[360]

From the Indiana DNR site

Becoming a Conservation Officer

 

[hickuleas]

I believe they are one of the few LEO's that do not need Probable cause. They swing a big stick.

 

[tenring]

It it just me, or do I find it rather odd that a new poster always come to this board to ask legal questions rather than look up a phone number and call and talk to someone who gets paid to know the answers?

 

[Scout11]

I'll correct myself- they where conservation officers. you are all right- they can come on private property for any reason - they can even use my cabin if they want. We all have our limits on how far we can be backed up into a corner, this just happens to be mine. Maybe I should call in, I don't have time to defend to pay to defend my rights- in this case I have none. Thought I would get some good responses posting this situation- which I did- thank you- Being a new poster puts me on the bottom of the list EH tenring.

 

[tenring]

Being a new poster puts me on the bottom of the list EH tenring.

List? What list?

 

[IndyMonkey]

It it just me, or do I find it rather odd that a new poster always come to this board to ask legal questions rather than look up a phone number and call and talk to someone who gets paid to know the answers?

Not at all, most people get on forums searching out specific info.

What else is he going to post about....... whether or not to get his son circumsized?

 

[Hank in Indiana]

I'm sure that I will get someones hair up on this post. I like the CO's. 24 years ago I bought property so I could hunt unbothered. The CO's have checked me once hunting and a couple times riding a 4-wheeler. This aggravation does not compare to the number of times that trespassers come on my land and kill animals, let them lay or cut off the antlers, leave their garbage, and steal everything that is not nailed down. Any one that doesn't appreciate these CO's send them my way.

 

[thecanuck]

I'm sure that I will get someones hair up on this post. I like the CO's. 24 years ago I bought property so I could hunt unbothered. The CO's have checked me once hunting and a couple times riding a 4-wheeler. This aggravation does not compare to the number of times that trespassers come on my land and kill animals, let them lay or cut off the antlers, leave their garbage, and steal everything that is not nailed down. Any one that doesn't appreciate these CO's send them my way.

I agree... I have a couple that are personal friends and their job is truly a thankless one. Unlike regular LEO, they don't have any regular shifts and if a poaching call comes in at all hours they have to go. There is generally only 2 sometimes 3 officers per county which keeps them busier than all get out. Like any Law Enforcement Group - there are some bad apples who give the rest a bad name but generally alot of them are sportsman just like you and I who enjoy the outdoors and are just enforcing the rules.

It's true they have a broader range of powers when it comes to where they can go because they are enforcing game laws and the wildlife is the jurisdiction of the state - no matter where it goes.

 

[Mike H]

Another + for CO's. I wish I would see them more often so they could arrest some of the morons that hunt in some of the same places I do. I hear a lot of early and late shots during deer season.
Last time I checked the wildlife in the state of Indiana belongs to the people not a King! Does not matter whose property the wildlife is on. No such thing as those are MY deer, etc. Unless of course you have a license to have captive deer.
I'm always legal, and I'm always glad to see a CO.
Granted give someone a badge and it can go to their head, I just haven't met a bad CO yet.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Another + for CO's. I wish I would see them more often so they could arrest some of the morons that hunt in some of the same places I do. I hear a lot of early and late shots during deer season.
Last time I checked the wildlife in the state of Indiana belongs to the people not a King! Does not matter whose property the wildlife is on. No such thing as those are MY deer, etc. Unless of course you have a license to have captive deer.
I'm always legal, and I'm always glad to see a CO.
Granted give someone a badge and it can go to their head, I just haven't met a bad CO yet.

King=State

 

[bigiron]

It it just me, or do I find it rather odd that a new poster always come to this board to ask legal questions rather than look up a phone number and call and talk to someone who gets paid to know the answers?

thats pretty harsh. isn't posting questions regarding things such as these what this forum is all about? maybe in the future when you come across these types of threads you just ignore them. no need to step on someones toes, newby or not. have a nice day. jeff

 

[MinuteMan47]

I'll correct myself- they where conservation officers. you are all right- they can come on private property for any reason - they can even use my cabin if they want. We all have our limits on how far we can be backed up into a corner, this just happens to be mine. Maybe I should call in, I don't have time to defend to pay to defend my rights- in this case I have none. Thought I would get some good responses posting this situation- which I did- thank you- Being a new poster puts me on the bottom of the list EH tenring.

Well, let's think about this...

You want power for your home? Duke energy (or your provider) is going to tresspass MONTHLY to check your meter.

Trash pick-up? (I have a dumpster) Then the trash company trespasses weekly to check the dumpster.

Building a shed or adding on to your house? Then the county will most likely trespass to see if you have followed code and have ALL your permits.

So, If you want to hunt, guess what. The COs are going to "tresspass" if they have seen hunters. It is their job to make sure you are hunting LEGALLY! Your property or not!

That's the world we live in...(or state).

I don't think they are going into your cabin cuddling up by the fire reading a book...

From what I understand from your posts this property isn't where you live...right? So, if it were me I would keep the CO on my good side...that way he can do his job and keep the real trespassers OUT. Let him know what you drive or when you'll be there, and he will help keep an eye out.

On the other hand, if he is intentionally targeting you and it continues then you may have a case. Because under Indiana law it is ILLEGAL for ANYONE to interfere with the LEGAL taking of game. I know I have read this so if anyone wants find it that would be great...

 

[E5RANGER375]

the can not go into your home.. open land is another thing.

IC 14-22-39-3
Searches of effects; entry onto property
Sec. 3. (a) As used in this section, "public or private property" does not include dwellings.
(b) The director and conservation officers may:
(1) search a boat, a conveyance, a vehicle, an automobile, a fish box, a fish basket, a game bag, a game coat, or other receptacle in which game may be carried; and
(2) enter into or upon private or public property for the purposes of subdivision (1) or for the purpose of patrolling or investigating;
if the director or conservation officer has good reason to believe that the director or conservation officer will secure evidence of a violation of this article or a law for the propagation or protection of fish, frogs, mussels, game, furbearing mammals, or birds.

what if the boat is your house?? some people do live on boats

 

[MinuteMan47]

what if the boat is your house?? some people do live on boats

What is the definition of a 'dwelling'?

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

thats pretty harsh. isn't posting questions regarding things such as these what this forum is all about? maybe in the future when you come across these types of threads you just ignore them. no need to step on someones toes, newby or not. have a nice day. jeff

BI, not necessarily harsh, no. The way I read Tenring is that he is saying that if you want ACCURATE information on a particular subject, especially a legal opinion, then you go to the person(s) that work in that particular field (no pun intended) or an enforcer of those laws, not your local hangout where most all information is just layman's advice.

To put it bluntly, as Jack was attempting to do, if the OP has a concern about COs on his land or investigating his son on a hunting trip, instead of asking for advice on the internet, maybe a telephone call to the Commander of his district, who actually controls the COs walking on his land, is the most direct and accurate source of information. If the OP just wants to vent, then state, "Hey, I want to vent a minute...", lay out his problem and vent.