Defensive Shotgun-Rangemaster

[Never A Victim]

Defensive Shotun-Rangemaster 08/05/2016

This is my review of Defensive Shotgun taught by Tom Givens of Rangemaster. This course was held in Nappanee, Indiana on 08/05/2016, and was a one-day, 8-hour course.

This was my first introduction to training with a defensive shotgun and my first time training with Tom Givens. Both were long overdue. For this course, I was running my Remington 870 with an XS Big Dot front sight, SOE single point sling, and Magpul stock and forend. For ammo, I was using Sellier and Bellot 00 Buck and Winchester AA #9 birdshot. I had no gear failures during this course. The only shotgun to go down in the whole class was a semi automatic shotgun.

The day started out with a short lecture on this history, lethality, and considerations for ammunition selection. We soon hit the range and first we worked on building the muscle memory of racking the action (for those of us running pump shotguns) immediately after the shot broke. Another drill was used to emphasize port or emergency reloading, and we finished out the afternoon with a five-person team drill called “rolling thunder.” After lunch we switched to buckshot ammunition and started with some pattern work. Patterning your shotgun is a concept that was new to me. Tom explained it that every shotgun needs to be paired with buckshot that works best with its barrel and just because two Remington 870 shotguns are identical, doesn’t mean that they will pattern buckshot the same.

I learned a lot from this course, more than I expected. I felt myself becoming more familiar and confident with my shotgun. Shotgun fights are won and lost with the manipulation of the shotgun, more than the actual shooting part of the fight. Getting my shotgun out to the range at least a few times a year to work on manipulations alone will be very beneficial. I also learned just how critical it is to test your buckshot ammunition. The Sellier and Bellot buckshot I was using was total and complete garbage. Further than seven yards, my pattern opened up to the point of nearly missing the target. Tom explained the science behind a consistent buckshot pattern, and the Sellier and Bellot buckshot I was using was anything but consistent. At 15 yards and beyond, my pattern was so spread out I was putting a few pellets completely off of the target.

I would absolutely recommend training with Tom Givens. His real world experiences and down-to-the-point explanations really connected with me. Getting training with your shotgun is just as important as getting training with your rifle or pistol-yet most people never learn the correct way to run a shotgun. This can be a very effective tool, if you learn how to use it.

Take this course.

 

[MCgrease08]

Thanks for the write up. I had my eye on this class, but had a few others that took priority (basic rifle, managing confrontations).

I own a shotgun but it's pretty far down the list of firearms I spend the most time with. As an apartment dweller I'm not real comfortable using it as a HD gun.

I will keep this one on the wish list for next year.

 

[Coach]

My pump broke during the class and had to go to my semi-auto backup. Semi Auto was great. I passed the qualification with crappy Remington buckshot. I think there were three that passed out of 9. It was a great class and I really like Tom Givens and his classes. This shotgun class will be coming to the Riley Conservation Club in October of 2017.

For those that think the shotgun is not a viable option for home defense or business defense I suggest taking this class. Running a shotgun is not as easy as the movies and people think it is. It is not a weapon for the untrained or a slob. It would not be very difficult to get up to speed, and the decisive power of the weapon is concrete.

 

[cedartop]

Defensive Shotun-Rangemaster 08/05/2016

This is my review of Defensive Shotgun taught by Tom Givens of Rangemaster. This course was held in Nappanee, Indiana on 08/05/2016, and was a one-day, 8-hour course.

This was my first introduction to training with a defensive shotgun and my first time training with Tom Givens. Both were long overdue. For this course, I was running my Remington 870 with an XS Big Dot front sight, SOE single point sling, and Magpul stock and forend. For ammo, I was using Sellier and Bellot 00 Buck and Winchester AA #9 birdshot. I had no gear failures during this course. The only shotgun to go down in the whole class was a semi automatic shotgun.

The day started out with a short lecture on this history, lethality, and considerations for ammunition selection. We soon hit the range and first we worked on building the muscle memory of racking the action (for those of us running pump shotguns) immediately after the shot broke. Another drill was used to emphasize port or emergency reloading, and we finished out the afternoon with a five-person team drill called “rolling thunder.” After lunch we switched to buckshot ammunition and started with some pattern work. Patterning your shotgun is a concept that was new to me. Tom explained it that every shotgun needs to be paired with buckshot that works best with its barrel and just because two Remington 870 shotguns are identical, doesn’t mean that they will pattern buckshot the same.

I learned a lot from this course, more than I expected. I felt myself becoming more familiar and confident with my shotgun. Shotgun fights are won and lost with the manipulation of the shotgun, more than the actual shooting part of the fight. Getting my shotgun out to the range at least a few times a year to work on manipulations alone will be very beneficial. I also learned just how critical it is to test your buckshot ammunition. The Sellier and Bellot buckshot I was using was total and complete garbage. Further than seven yards, my pattern opened up to the point of nearly missing the target. Tom explained the science behind a consistent buckshot pattern, and the Sellier and Bellot buckshot I was using was anything but consistent. At 15 yards and beyond, my pattern was so spread out I was putting a few pellets completely off of the target.

I would absolutely recommend training with Tom Givens. His real world experiences and down-to-the-point explanations really connected with me. Getting training with your shotgun is just as important as getting training with your rifle or pistol-yet most people never learn the correct way to run a shotgun. This can be a very effective tool, if you learn how to use it.

Take this course.

Okay, now I know who you were by mentioning the single point sling and the S&B ammo. I think I had you confused with another INGOer. You were down the line from me away but you seemed to really be running that pump gun well.

I found it to be an interesting and informative class as well. I must say though, carbines are much more fun. Mainly because they are easier to run, and that appeals to the lazy in me.

 

[cedartop]

My pump broke during the class and had to go to my semi-auto backup. Semi Auto was great. I passed the qualification with crappy Remington buckshot. I think there were three that passed out of 9. It was a great class and I really like Tom Givens and his classes. This shotgun class will be coming to the Riley Conservation Club in October of 2017.

..

Two points.
1. You don't know it, but you almost broke something besides that pump gun. Tom told me, "that buddy of yours is one BIG dude, and it is not a fluff. He is solid." Does that give you a clue?

2. I failed the qual. There were really two reasons for this and both were my fault. That was a new barrel I was using and even though I saw that the rear sight was not centered I left it. that turned out to be a mistake. My other mistake was aiming for the top of the upper thoracic cavity like I would with a pistol. Because of the shape of the bottle, that let a couple of pellets slip outside the ring. Overall, I was pretty happy with that Fioccchi 00B. It did not pattern as tight as the flite control stuff, but was better than most.

I will take the class again when you host it. That side saddle will be removed so I can keep from beating the crap out of my trigger finger knuckle.

 

[Coach]

Two points.
1. You don't know it, but you almost broke something besides that pump gun. Tom told me, "that buddy of yours is one BIG dude, and it is not a fluff. He is solid." Does that give you a clue?

2. I failed the qual. There were really two reasons for this and both were my fault. That was a new barrel I was using and even though I saw that the rear sight was not centered I left it. that turned out to be a mistake. My other mistake was aiming for the top of the upper thoracic cavity like I would with a pistol. Because of the shape of the bottle, that let a couple of pellets slip outside the ring. Overall, I was pretty happy with that Fioccchi 00B. It did not pattern as tight as the flite control stuff, but was better than most.

I will take the class again when you host it. That side saddle will be removed so I can keep from beating the crap out of my trigger finger knuckle.

He should have known me in my prime. I was not quite as heavy and use to be strong. I miss being strong. But not enough to lift or exercise.

From the retention positions I am thinking that the low ready is preferable to the high ready. I am going to ask him to include a little more of that next year.

I am going to work on a better butt cuff or securing the one I have as well. It was really a great class and I learned a lot. I am also thinking the shotgun needs to be promoted more for home defense.

 

[Never A Victim]

Thanks for the write up. I had my eye on this class, but had a few others that took priority (basic rifle, managing confrontations).

I own a shotgun but it's pretty far down the list of firearms I spend the most time with. As an apartment dweller I'm not real comfortable using it as a HD gun.

I will keep this one on the wish list for next year.

Buckshot and 9mm rounds penetrate about the same in a home. I'd say if you're comfortable with having a 9mm handgun for home defense, a shotgun isn't any worse. I use a 9mm for home defense, but thats because I have a 2 year old and I dont have a way to secure my shotgun in a way I can get to it quickly. Like you-I don't have a "use" for my shotgun as of right now, but I still took a lot away from this class. Who knows, there might be a time when I need a gun, and a shotgun happens to be in my hands. Then I will be glad I took this class.

 

[Never A Victim]

Okay, now I know who you were by mentioning the single point sling and the S&B ammo. I think I had you confused with another INGOer. You were down the line from me away but you seemed to really be running that pump gun well.

I found it to be an interesting and informative class as well. I must say though, carbines are much more fun. Mainly because they are easier to run, and that appeals to the lazy in me.

We should have worn name tags. Youre on my short list of Indiana people to train with.