Coronovirus IV

[GodFearinGunTotin]

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/othe...wn-without-vaccine-italian-expert/ar-BB15N3hh

“The novel coronavirus is no longer lethal as it used to be and could die on its own without a vaccine, an Italian expert has said.
Head of the infectious diseases clinic at the Policlinico San Martino hospital in Italy, Matteo Bassetti hinted at a possible end in sight of the virus after stating that COVID-19 was losing its virulence since most patients who would have died from the disease in March or April were now recovering.
Matteo Bassetti said COVID-19 was losing its virulence and thus becoming less lethal.”

 

[nonobaddog]

So now we have heard that the chinese virus is...

1 - no longer lethal and dying out
2 - just getting started, many more will die and it will be with us for many years

 

[jamil]

I am hopeful that cell-mediated immunity is going to be adequate. I'm not yet ready to accept the idea that this disease will have short term immunity like coronaviruses that cause colds. I am concerned, though. Not only do coronaviruses have short term immunity in humans, coronavirus vaccines have also been difficult to develop in animals. One of them makes the disease worse (somewhat similar to antibody-enhanced worsening responses like you get with dengue fever in humans).

I'm also hoping the reported cases of infection occurring 3 months later are a combination of false positive testing (due to viral fragments remaining in cells) and some people having chronic disease. The chronic disease is bad enough of course but not as worrisome as lack of immunity after infection.

Here is a new article discussing T cell immunity. I haven't read it yet https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0995-0

That seems to be the direction some of the vaccine research is going. But I think they're a lot farther in timing from getting that to work than just this fall. That may be years away. We've heard the "experts" tell us more than once that we're in human trials (not necessarily for the t-cell stuff) and they should have something out by this fall. I'm very skeptical of that. I think we should be putting more research into treatment, which seems to have had the best gains. Also, prevention. If there's a practical way that doesn't destroy more lives than it saves to reduce the effective R0, that would be the most workable solution.

 

[jamil]

So now we have heard that the chinese virus is...

1 - no longer lethal and dying out
2 - just getting started, many more will die and it will be with us for many years

Who is saying which and when did they say it. Both can the truest thing we know, but not at the same time.

 

[jamil]

My thinking has definitely changed on the Wuhan coronavirus over time. I'm now pretty much here. It is far better to get healthier and build up your immune system than to hide and allow yourself to become even more vulnerable. Those that are most at risk should be protected, but this universal shutdown was a massive mistake.

Apparently a lot of people have concluded something similar. At least that the only they can do to actively help themselves is improve their own health. I've been taking steps towards that and I think many other people have too. The bike shops are all bare, and I think that is a testament that a lot of people are seeing that as a way to become more active. Trek is pretty much out of stock in most places. They did not anticipate the demand and then they were shut down for a long time. They've said they won't be able to start shipping bikes in volume until next month. That's probably the case with many other brands.

 

[nonobaddog]

Who is saying which and when did they say it. Both can the truest thing we know, but not at the same time.

Well number 1 is just three posts upstream, post number 2682 - said by some italian doctor and reported by msn.
I have heard number 2 quite a bit but I do not have a specific source right now. If you can say you have not heard that and you want me to, I will find a few sources. However I suspect you and everybody else has heard it.

 

[jamil]

Well number 1 is just three posts upstream, post number 2682 - said by some italian doctor and reported by msn.
I have heard number 2 quite a bit but I do not have a specific source right now. If you can say you have not heard that and you want me to, I will find a few sources. However I suspect you and everybody else has heard it.

Was on my phone. I should have used more words. What I'm saying, both can't be right. Which side is saying what? That kinda informs us about something because not even research can be free from politics. It's true enough that two things can be right at the same time, but not two obviously contradictory things. It can't simultaneously true that the disease is getting weaker dying out, AND getting stronger and more infectious. So the point being, it leaves us with the question of who is right, because they can't both be, and what politics does the "wrong" side represent? I don't have an answer for that question.

 

[nonobaddog]

Was on my phone. I should have used more words. What I'm saying, both can't be right. Which side is saying what? That kinda informs us about something because not even research can be free from politics. It's true enough that two things can be right at the same time, but not two obviously contradictory things. It can't simultaneously true that the disease is getting weaker dying out, AND getting stronger and more infectious. So the point being, it leaves us with the question of who is right, because they can't both be, and what politics does the "wrong" side represent? I don't have an answer for that question.

Right, that was my point, contradictory messages are being given. I'm not sure which is right. I do see the deaths tailing off in Minnesota but there are a lot of people that have not contracted the disease yet.
I don't think we can trust any 'side' of the issue since it has become political and that means full of .

 

[Ziggidy]

I was tested positive June 5th and spent the next 2 1/2 weeks in hell. I feel great now, cannot imagine how those who had worse could feel. That said, I have been good for about 3 weeks now. Back in January had scheduled a doc visit (routine) for today. Last Friday I called to confirm the visit to make sure it was not cancelled or changed to virtual visit....nope, all if fine and come to office. Left work early and went to office 15 minutes early.

One minute before the scheduled time, the office manager (RN) came out and told me the doctor did not want to see me in person. Why? Because I never got retested and he was high risk. I vented, diplomatically - as hard as it was, I was respectful. I then asked will he ever see me without being retested and said she'd go ask. She came back and said he must have left through the back door because he could not be found. I again respectfully gave her my thoughts.

On the way home I received a call asking me if a little later he could do a video conf with me and I agreed. Once again I respectfully gave her a piece of my mind. I asked her why he was he was even in the office if he was high risk, she could not answer but agreed maybe he should not. I gave her more of my mind and told her maybe I made a bad choice of a doctor and I will be reviewing that decision.

We had our video chat and he apologized but said he cannot take chances....I told him I did not like it and let's just move on. In my mind I need a doctor for now for my scripts, nothing more. I am now going to search for a new doctor.

I'm venting.....thanks for letting me.

 

[dusty88]

I was tested positive June 5th and spent the next 2 1/2 weeks in hell. I feel great now, cannot imagine how those who had worse could feel. That said, I have been good for about 3 weeks now. Back in January had scheduled a doc visit (routine) for today. Last Friday I called to confirm the visit to make sure it was not cancelled or changed to virtual visit....nope, all if fine and come to office. Left work early and went to office 15 minutes early.

One minute before the scheduled time, the office manager (RN) came out and told me the doctor did not want to see me in person. Why? Because I never got retested and he was high risk. I vented, diplomatically - as hard as it was, I was respectful. I then asked will he ever see me without being retested and said she'd go ask. She came back and said he must have left through the back door because he could not be found. I again respectfully gave her my thoughts.

On the way home I received a call asking me if a little later he could do a video conf with me and I agreed. Once again I respectfully gave her a piece of my mind. I asked her why he was he was even in the office if he was high risk, she could not answer but agreed maybe he should not. I gave her more of my mind and told her maybe I made a bad choice of a doctor and I will be reviewing that decision.

We had our video chat and he apologized but said he cannot take chances....I told him I did not like it and let's just move on. In my mind I need a doctor for now for my scripts, nothing more. I am now going to search for a new doctor.

I am glad you have gotten through the worst of the disease and hope you have no long-term effects

I agree with you about the doc. I think it's now recognized to be pointless to test someone 6 weeks after infection. If it shows up positive, it's likely just viral particles still hanging around in your cells.

Do you mind sharing how you think you were exposed, for learning purposes?

 

[nonobaddog]

I was tested positive June 5th and spent the next 2 1/2 weeks in hell. I feel great now, cannot imagine how those who had worse could feel. That said, I have been good for about 3 weeks now. Back in January had scheduled a doc visit (routine) for today. Last Friday I called to confirm the visit to make sure it was not cancelled or changed to virtual visit....nope, all if fine and come to office. Left work early and went to office 15 minutes early.

One minute before the scheduled time, the office manager (RN) came out and told me the doctor did not want to see me in person. Why? Because I never got retested and he was high risk. I vented, diplomatically - as hard as it was, I was respectful. I then asked will he ever see me without being retested and said she'd go ask. She came back and said he must have left through the back door because he could not be found. I again respectfully gave her my thoughts.

On the way home I received a call asking me if a little later he could do a video conf with me and I agreed. Once again I respectfully gave her a piece of my mind. I asked her why he was he was even in the office if he was high risk, she could not answer but agreed maybe he should not. I gave her more of my mind and told her maybe I made a bad choice of a doctor and I will be reviewing that decision.

We had our video chat and he apologized but said he cannot take chances....I told him I did not like it and let's just move on. In my mind I need a doctor for now for my scripts, nothing more. I am now going to search for a new doctor.

I'm venting.....thanks for letting me.

Big Congratulations on getting through hell and being all better now. I sincerely hope your immunity to this chinese virus lasts forever.

I can also see the doctors point for not wanting to go through hell or even dying - he just played it wrong in your case in every way possible. I'm thinking you are right for wanting a different doc.

 

[Ziggidy]

I am glad you have gotten through the worst of the disease and hope you have no long-term effects

I agree with you about the doc. I think it's now recognized to be pointless to test someone 6 weeks after infection. If it shows up positive, it's likely just viral particles still hanging around in your cells.

Do you mind sharing how you think you were exposed, for learning purposes?

My wife works in a nursing home, we both test positive at the same time. My symptoms were worse. We "believe" she got from work and gave it to me.

 

[Ziggidy]

Big Congratulations on getting through hell and being all better now. I sincerely hope your immunity to this chinese virus lasts forever.

I can also see the doctors point for not wanting to go through hell or even dying - he just played it wrong in your case in every way possible. I'm thinking you are right for wanting a different doc.

Agreed, he played it wrong. I called Friday to verify and all was a "go" for today.

Well, I fell better after venting. Thanks.

 

[MCgrease08]

Just a few random thoughts.

First, I got a work email today laying out some new COVID protocols for anyone who has to work on company property or do customer visits. Nothing really remarkable there and I am working from home for the foreseeable future so not much that affects me. But what stood out was the language of the email. It had a line to the effect of "as you can see from the chart below, the US is seeing a spike in positive cases and deaths."

Uh, no. There has not been a spike in deaths. Deaths are down pretty significantly since the peak. And the kicker is, the chart only showed positive cases. Deaths weren't even included. It ticks me off that they are buying into the narrative and that they think we're dumb enough to not even realize the chart doesn't say what they claim it does.

Second, I heard an NPR report about California closing restaurants and non essential businesses again due to the spike in cases. They saw 8,000 new positives yesterday as a result of processing more than 100,000 tests daily. That's an 8% rate of positives. Seems pretty low to me. IIRC the rate of positives was somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% when the first wave hit in March and April. Am I remembering that wrong?

 

[dusty88]

Just a few random thoughts.

First, I got a work email today laying out some new COVID protocols for anyone who has to work on company property or do customer visits. Nothing really remarkable there and I am working from home for the foreseeable future so not much that affects me. But what stood out was the language of the email. It had a line to the effect of "as you can see from the chart below, the US is seeing a spike in positive cases and deaths."

Uh, no. There has not been a spike in deaths. Deaths are down pretty significantly since the peak.

their wording wasn't perfectly accurate, no. But deaths are turning back up and especially so if you follow the various epidemics around the country. The deaths were originally primarily in New York City. Then several states (including specific areas of California, Florida, Texas and Arizona) started to have cases climbing primarily through the 18-30 yr old age group. Then the hospitalizations start ticking up in those areas, and finally the deaths which will lag.

I think deaths will stay somewhat lower (as a % of cases) for several reasons
-We aren't just testing severe cases anymore
-Younger people are more affected now and obviously have a better outcome
-Treatment is improving

However, it almost certainly is going up significantly from here because
-First we get fooled by a low "rate" when cases are climbing rapidly. Each day you add cases during a rapidly growing epidemic, the bigger the denominator
-as illustrated in other states, these cases in young people start to spill over into older people via home life, healthcare, and nursing home workers.

Here are current graphs of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths

And the kicker is, the chart only showed positive cases. Deaths weren't even included. It ticks me off that they are buying into the narrative and that they think we're dumb enough to not even realize the chart doesn't say what they claim it does.

Second, I heard an NPR report about California closing restaurants and non essential businesses again due to the spike in cases. They saw 8,000 new positives yesterday as a result of processing more than 100,000 tests daily. That's an 8% rate of positives. Seems pretty low to me. IIRC the rate of positives was somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% when the first wave hit in March and April. Am I remembering that wrong?

The rate of positives was terribly high in March because only the most severe people were tested at first.
The goal I've been hearing for positivity rates is that the states need to stay under 5%.
Indiana's positivity rate was somewhere around 5% if I recall but has been increasing and is at 8.1% this week.

 

[Ziggidy]

Just a few random thoughts.

First, I got a work email today laying out some new COVID protocols for anyone who has to work on company property or do customer visits. Nothing really remarkable there and I am working from home for the foreseeable future so not much that affects me. But what stood out was the language of the email. It had a line to the effect of "as you can see from the chart below, the US is seeing a spike in positive cases and deaths."

Uh, no. There has not been a spike in deaths. Deaths are down pretty significantly since the peak. And the kicker is, the chart only showed positive cases. Deaths weren't even included. It ticks me off that they are buying into the narrative and that they think we're dumb enough to not even realize the chart doesn't say what they claim it does.

Second, I heard an NPR report about California closing restaurants and non essential businesses again due to the spike in cases. They saw 8,000 new positives yesterday as a result of processing more than 100,000 tests daily. That's an 8% rate of positives. Seems pretty low to me. IIRC the rate of positives was somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% when the first wave hit in March and April. Am I remembering that wrong?

Yes, 8% (0.08)

California included churches in non-essential.....according to news.

 

[Leadeye]

I'm curious if all the covid protective stuff has helped out with other more common diseases. Things like colds, rotoviruses, basic flu and other infections.

 

[Phase2]

I'm curious if all the covid protective stuff has helped out with other more common diseases. Things like colds, rotoviruses, basic flu and other infections.

I'm sure it has as the methods to reduce spread of those diseases are largely the same. However, I'm just as sure that other medical needs have not been met such as cancer, diabetes and other testing, surgeries have been put off and general ailment consultations have been cut back. In addition, there have been a serious increase in mental issues related to the continuous fear-mongering and isolation.

 

[MCgrease08]

I know this thread is about COVID, but during a recent conversation someone suggested I look up the number of tuberculosis deaths each year. I did.

I had no idea that 1.5 million people die from tuberculosis annually. That's more than 4100 deaths per day. I had no idea TB is the world's most infectious disease, found in 131 countries. I had no idea that 4 out of 5 TB cases go untreated. I had no idea that it infects more than 1 million children each year.

You may not realize any of this either. So why doesn't the media doesn't breathlessly report 24/7 coverage of TB?

https://www.tballiance.org/why-new-...rganization estimates,TB and 1.5 million died.

 

[churchmouse]

I know this thread is about COVID, but during a recent conversation someone suggested I look up the number of tuberculosis deaths each year. I did.

I had no idea that 1.5 million people die from tuberculosis annually. That's more than 4100 deaths per day. I had no idea TB is the world's most infectious disease, found in 131 countries. I had no idea that 4 out of 5 TB cases go untreated. I had no idea that it infects more than 1 million children each year.

You may not realize any of this either. So why doesn't the media doesn't breathlessly report 24/7 coverage of TB?

https://www.tballiance.org/why-new-...rganization estimates,TB and 1.5 million died.

Because they can not link it to the orange man.