Cooper believed that at 2200 fps, hydrostatic shock > caliber/momentum.

[dontcha]

he said that in his book at 40 gr 22 would have sufficent power, by means of hydrostatick shock. A pocke t9, rehamberd to 356 TSW case, can get 45 grs to 2200 fps, for 500 ft lbs and have a flat face on the bullet. That flat,meplat on the bullet adds to its effect on a target. So the pocket 9 CAN have the same level of power as a 4:barreled 357.,but with no more recoil than we see with the 380. When hiking, you can have both a superbly accurate Smth .2214 .22lr pocket auto, for 18 oz nd 6" of your space, for use vs frogs, snakes, birds, and small critters.

For use vs men, wild dog packs, cougers, and rapid animals. you have the 13 oz, very controlable,yet powerful PF9, converted to 356 TSW. Added together, the waight of the 2 guns is but 31 ozs, same as 3 " barreled k frame 357, or loaded G26,but you've got the option of using the very quiet .22 CB cps.

another option is the $100, exptended, threaded barrel of the Twisted Industries .22 unit for the pf9. Assembled to the gun, the total wt is 12 oz and then you hve the opition of mounting a good silencer. Say, 5 ozs of said silencer. that creats a total gun load of 30 oz, which is less than an M9 or P35 or 4" .38. but has much more versatility than any one pistol. For a pair of hiking/fun pistols, they are very hard to beat. The .22 unit can be sent thru th email, it's not a gun, the barrel is an extra $100, the TI 22 unit itself is $250. So, for say, $600, you've got a grear pair of guns for the backpack. 20 seconds of parts switching, and you're ready to plink some small stuff, 20 more seconds, you'rd back in full defensive mode. Or spend a bit more money have a complete gun in each caliber.

 

[jrogers]

Except you have to spend perfectly good money on a PF9.

 

[357 Terms]

A pocke t9, rehamberd to 356 TSW case, can get 45 grs to 2300 fps, for 500 ft lbs and have a flat face on the bullet. That flat,meplat on the bullet adds to its effect on a target. So the pocket 9 CAN have the same level of power as a 4:barreled 357.,but with no more recoil than we see with the 380.

Ok, anybody ever followed thru on this and actually done it?

seems...interesting.

 

[jrogers]

Jokes aside, I'd be interested in seeing some evidence for the man's theory. As far as I know in the end it all comes down to shot placement. At what point, if any, does hydrostatic shock mitigate poor shot placement, and to what extent?

 

[churchmouse]

I would need to see some real world results myself. Theory is great and will set you off in a given direction but actual results may not be what you set out for.

 

[Deet]

I really have no idea what the heck all this means, but with all new ideas I always see the results compared to the 357 magnum. Since every new gun/ammo/idea is trying to mimic the .357 magnum, I believe that we need to stop all these theories and just convert to a .357 magnum. For a mere $400 here's a perfectly nice .357 magnum, a Ruger Police Service Six.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Lovely theory - somewhat borne out.... Not with those exact chamberings... Consider the 22 TCM. The 22 TCM cranks it out of a 5'' barrel at 2100 fps. And it is switchable to a 9mm barrel. After firing both ways, my experience is that I would rather shoot the 22 TCM cartridge due to the softer felt recoil and faster follow up. This also leads to greater accuracy. And if I am shooting anything thick - where hydrostatic shock damage matters (that would work for people too...) the TCM does way more damage.

If any of you want to see real world evidence for the theory I think that Rock Island Armory / Armscor are proving it.

 

[9mmfan]

The OP has a short history of starting these kind of threads. Don't really see the point.

 

[giovani]

In an artical by the late great Parker Ackley, he stated that due to velocity and levels of shock transmitted to a game animal that with the correct bullet a 220 swift should be the greatest big game cartridge known to man.

but out in the field it just didn't work that way.

Theorys are theorys untill proven in real world situation , not laboratory experiments.

 

[Mgderf]

In an artical by the late great Parker Ackley, he stated that due to velocity and levels of shock transmitted to a game animal that with the correct bullet a 220 swift should be the greatest big game cartridge known to man.

but out in the field it just didn't work that way.

Theorys are theorys untill proven in real world situation , not laboratory experiments.

On paper, bumble-bees can't fly. Body weight-wing size ratio doesn't match up, so theoretically, they "can't fly".

Someone forgot to tell the bumble-bees.

 

[dontcha]

There's at least a dozen other makers of pocket 9's. The best, overall is the CM9 from Kahr, actually. Keltec has several problems, among them a pretty sorry trigger pull, a lower frame that is pinned onto the upper frame, an extension mainspring, and a too small trigger guard. The proof is seen every time a 2200 fps plus sp hits an animal. ALL AROUND the permanent wound cavity is bloodshot meat, that was obviously not TOUCHED by the bullet itelf, but it's destroyed anyway. Suich bullets often make pulp of an entire lung, sometimes both lungs, too.

 

[dontcha]

Po was an idiot, obviously. why would anyone even THINK that a mere 2000 ft lbs would do much for anything bigger than a small deer? but men aint deer. Men aint even equal to a 40 lb pitbull. If you doubt it, just crush the dog's testicles, and then see what happens. :-) do a man the same way, and see if he's still functional.

 

[dontcha]

Let's see you get 5 hits per second, on the chest at 10 ft, with, a 357 that carries sweetly in a standard pants pocket, and still delivers the 125 grs at 1500 fps that 357 fans brag about. :-) instead, what you get is big, heavy clunk, 125 grs at 1150 fps, which often doesn't expand in flesh, wasting 1/3rd of its 350 ft lbs on the far side of the man, and getting only 3 hits per second,. while looking like you are a potato smuggler.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[srad]

Too bad that Reed's Ammo no longer sells the CZ 52 barrels and ammo for the .22 Reed Express; 45gr. of goodness coming out of the 5" barrel at 2200 fps.

 

[aaron580]

What kind of bullet are we talking about? and why in the world would somebody use a dead round like the smith instead of something already hotter like, oh I don't know, 357 sig?

 

[giovani]

Po was an idiot, obviously. why would anyone even THINK that a mere 2000 ft lbs would do much for anything bigger than a small deer? but men aint deer. Men aint even equal to a 40 lb pitbull. If you doubt it, just crush the dog's testicles, and then see what happens. :-) do a man the same way, and see if he's still functional.

If you had brains enough to grease a griddle I would continue posting but as your ignorant posts prove otherwise, good day.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Scooch over.

 

[churchmouse]

I will share some of mine.....

 

[chezuki]

Scooch over.

I will share some of mine.....

Going to ba a boring show. The OP is no longer with us.