Carry on the High Seas

[Scutter01]

I was reading an article on ocean piracy today and it mentioned how more and more ocean sailors on private boats are going armed.

I'm in a landlocked state and have no desire to buy a sailboat and sail around the world, but I'd be interested to know what the laws are with regard to carrying.

Is it addressed under International Maritime law? What are the limitations, if any? Could I take a full-auto NFA gun with me? Would it even be legal to leave port and re-enter after my trip (assuming departure and arrival ports are the same and you're otherwise legally allowed to posses said gun) or is that "exporting a machine gun"?

 

[AFA1CY]

HTH

Yacht-Piraterie - Information Centre for Bluewater Sailors

MMSN - Pirate Information

 

[mrw]

As someone who wants to sail around the world, I've always wondered about this. I wonder if your boats registry would make any difference.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

BTW Indiana isnt landlocked

 

[Scutter01]

BTW Indiana isnt landlocked

How many oceans does it border?

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Lake Michigan may not be an ocean but its awfully close, and you can still navigate by water all the way to an ocean. So, I'd have to say 1.

 

[Donnelly]

Sounds like Josh knows his stuff. I am not 100% certain that Indiana has a port that can service ocear-faring ships though, so technically Scutter might be right.

Lake Michigan may not be an ocean but its awfully close, and you can still navigate by water all the way to an ocean. So, I'd have to say 1.

 

[blue2golf]

Lake Michigan may not be an ocean but its awfully close, and you can still navigate by water all the way to an ocean. So, I'd have to say 1.

You could say the same thing about the Ohio river, or any stream that drains into it or the Wabash. Lake Michigan would allow you to use a much larger boat, however.

 

[Scutter01]

Given that the question was about carrying in international waters, the fact that Indiana is not literally landlocked is fairly irrelevant to the original post. It's true that you can make your way through the Great Lakes to get to the Atlantic Ocean, but it's a moot point.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Fair enough. As long as this thread is sidetracked, there is a major port on Lake Michigan, one of 3 (?) ports in Indiana. And it is big enough for ocean going vessels.

Sorry for the sidetrack.

 

[paddling_man]

I had a 22' sailboat that was used inland. Always had dreams of bluewater sailing!

I *think* what you'll find is this...

Do whatever you want but you'll need to deal with local authorities whenever in port or in their territorial waters. I believe that a certain amount of latitude is given for a short stopover in port but if you don't declare that firearm and it is found in a routine (drug) search, whoa Nelly!

In my opinion, that's why they made the 590 Mariner. In private sailboat dimensions, I think it would be my weapon of choice. Among folks I've talked to and read about who sail the Caribbean, the 590-m is a common choice.

If you find the subject interesting, I recommend checking out Dangerous Waters: Modern Piracy and Terror on the High Seas by John Burnett. I read it a couple of months ago and the Marion CO Library has a copy. A 2002 work written after he had an experience with piracy while bluewater sailing near Singapore. The rest of the book spends time with him aboard some commercial ships.

Did you know that in "pirate areas," typically narrow straits where the large vessels are slowed to a crawl, that commercial ships employ "pirate prevention measures?" All deck lights come on and are lit over the side. Water cannons are left on, blowing behind the ship. Dummies are tied to the rails to simulate an alert crew.

Apparently, the ship SOP is to do everything possible to deter initial access to the ship's deck then, once pirates are aboard, to comply with all demands. During the read I was conflicted about what I thought the best approach would be. It can't be argued that Russian and Israeli flagged ships are rarely touched now due to having a reputation among maritime pirates.

 

[rhino]

There was a similar topic on AR15.com a few months ago. A couple of US Coast Guard officers weighed-in and the gist was that when you're in international waters, you're on your own and not subject to firearms laws of any governmental body. However, once you enter the territorial waters of some entity (and they define their own for the most part), you are subject to their laws and whims for the most part.

One ugly thing that I learned is that the Coast Guard can legally board your boat any time they want for any reason they want. I find that to be a completely unacceptable and contrary to multiple fundamental American legal princicples. Too bad we can't do anything about it. The so-called "war on drugs" has pretty much reduced your 4th Amendment Rights to zero when you're floating.

 

[mrw]

One ugly thing that I learned is that the Coast Guard can legally board your boat any time they want for any reason they want. I find that to be a completely unacceptable and contrary to multiple fundamental American legal princicples. Too bad we can't do anything about it. The so-called "war on drugs" has pretty much reduced your 4th Amendment Rights to zero when you're floating.

That's only for US flagged boats.

 

[rkba_net]

BTW Indiana isnt landlocked

IMHO I disagree...

Merriam-Webster...

landlocked


Main Entry:
land·locked
Pronunciation:
\-ˌläkt\
Function:
adjective
Date:
1622
1 : enclosed or nearly enclosed by land <a landlocked country>
2 : confined to freshwater by some barrier <landlocked salmon>
3 : living or located away from the ocean <a landlocked sailor>

 

[JcJ]

That's only for US flagged boats.

Could you expand on that?

 

[Soundslikejosh]

IMHO I disagree...

Merriam-Webster...

landlocked


Main Entry:
land·locked
Pronunciation:
-ˌläkt
Function:
adjective
Date:
1622
1 : enclosed or nearly enclosed by land <a landlocked country>
2 : confined to freshwater by some barrier <landlocked salmon>
3 : living or located away from the ocean <a landlocked sailor>

Well, you can't argue with the dictionary. Nice find.

I must submit that #1 and #3 seem to prove that I am in fact wrong. However, #2 supports my statement. You can get in a boat in Portage Indiana and go to South Africa without getting off your boat.

Truthfully, I am willing to be wrong. I make plenty of mistakes and don't mind adding one more, but I am not yet certain that this is one more.

I am glad to hear more friendly arguments either direction. Sorry to the OP as this seems to be a threadjack.

 

[Scutter01]

Sorry to the OP as this seems to be a threadjack.

*shakes fist*

 

[paddling_man]

On with the piratical hijacking! Yarrr!!!

Most of you natives probably know this but I thought it was a pretty neat bit of trivia when I moved here.

Indianapolis is located on flat to gently rolling land. The White River, which flows through the city from northeast to southwest, is too shallow for shipping, making Indianapolis the largest United States city not on a natural body of navigable water.

About Indianapolis

 

[rhino]

I love some good topic drift!

The problem with the landlocked yes or no thing is that the Great Lakes are not what the dictionary suggests when it says "fresh water." The Great Lakes are more appropriately fresh water seas/oceans (which seems contradictory), due their size and the size of the vessels than can navigate safely on them.

Because of that, I maintain that any state that borders one of the Great Lakes and has a significant port where biga** ships can come and go is not landlocked. I would not make the same assertion about someplace you can eventually reach paddling a kayak from the sea to someone's lakeside cottage.

 

[paddling_man]

I would not make the same assertion about someplace you can eventually reach paddling a kayak from the sea to someone's lakeside cottage.

Especially when it rains hard.