Carry Condition-Striker fired with no ext safety

[HighStrung]

So, I've read countless posts discussing what condition they carry in. One in the chamber cocked with safety on, one in the chamber with the hammer down, chamber empty, etc. My question is more directed at those with striker fired weapons without an external safety. I've got a M&P40c and with the factory sights, it's virtually impossible to rack the slide on your thigh or hip so chambering a round one handed is out of the question which brings about my concerns about not having a round in the chamber. But, having a round chambered also brings the concern about not having an external safety (which was an option I specifically did not want when I ordered mine). So, what say INGO about having round chambered on a striker fired gun without the external safety for your daily carry?

I'm quite confident in my M&P and in my personal saftey/handling habits. I've been carrying with one in the chamber for a while now and wanted to see what you all felt about this issue.

 

[shooter521]

So, what say INGO about having round chambered on a striker fired gun without the external safety for your daily carry?

That's the only way I'd do it.

If the thought bothers you, try carrying with the trigger forward (i.e. cocked) on an empty chamber for awhile. That's what I did when I first switched over to Glocks. After a couple weeks of regular gun-handling and no accidental/negligent "click," I loaded one in the pipe for real and was totally OK with it, and that's how I've rolled ever since.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

If you don't carry with a round chambered, you might as well be carrying a plastic brick. Your gun isn't going to go off. Keep your booger hook of the bang switch. Your gun isn't going to go off on it's own.

 

[Cam]

Always one in the chamber. They way the makers intended.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I'm of the opinion that there is little point to carrying an unloaded weapon. When stress hits, fumbling with your gun and racking the slide while trying to focus on the threat, especially a very close one (7 yards is the typical gunfight distance)... it's just a bad idea.

I've yet to find a single top rated training facility like Thunder Range or Front Site that recommend such a method of carry.

I carry my striker pistols like any other, with a round chambered.

Glock's, XD's, M&P's, etc. are very poor novice CCW weapons. You really need to understand, and have burned into muscle memory, the basics of firearms safety before carrying one daily. By the basics I mean keeping the booger hook off the bang switch until the weapon is pointed at the target. Not being well practiced in their use prior to CCW carry is a recipe for an AD (ND if you wish). It happens all too often.

If you're a veteran striker gun shooter and you don't have a problem with keeping your finger off the trigger, it's second nature to you... then a Glock or any other striker pistol is probably the best CCW weapon made. They are fast into action and have consistent trigger pulls which give them an advantage in a stressful situation.

The most important things about carrying a striker pistol once safety is mastered are:

1) Get a good quality holster that covers the trigger. I prefer open top holsters for their speed, but thumb break holsters are fine as well.
2) Always make sure the mouth of the holster is clear of obstructions before reholstering. This is especially true while wearing a cover garment like a jacket. If a draw string or edge of the jacket finds its way into the trigger guard while you're reholstering... this could be the result:

Yes, that's blood on the grip from an AD that hit an officer in his leg while reholstering.

3) Always remember, if you drop the weapon let it fall. Do not grab for it trying to save your finish... just let it go. It's happened too many times where someone has fumbled for their falling Glock and wound up shooting themselves or someone else when they grabbed it quickly and hit the trigger.

If this scares you, get a double action auto and avoid the striker pistols. You can't be scared of your CCW weapon and use it effectively. Get a weapon you're 100% comfortable with while it's loaded and ready for use.

 

[Snayperskaya]

Practice a lot of drawing without sticking your finger in the trigger guard. You should be fine after you develop good habits.

 

[451_Detonics]

Until you master the safety basics...

1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.

2. Never allow the muzzle to point at anything you are not willing to see destroyed.

3. Be sure of your target and know what lies behind it.

4. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are aligned on target.

...you have no business carrying a firearm. If rule 4 is complied with every time you will have eliminated 95% of possible AD's. Learning proper holstering procedures will eliminate at 4% more of them.

 

[jeremy]

I sometimes bypass rule #4...

 

[HighStrung]

For the record, I do have a quality holster that covers the trigger. I'm not new to carrying a weapon, just somewhat new to striker fired ones. And as stated before, I'm confident in my mastery of gun safety (and keeping my finger off the trigger has been engrained in my head for the past 20 years). The main question I had was the lack of an external safety for a carry weapon issue. I'm in no way scared of this gun and am totally comfortable with it, I just wanted to hear what everyone else thought.

Full-Auto~You brought up something I hadn't really thought about in #3 in regards to reaching for a dropped gun. I havn't fumbled mine yet so I hadn't considered what I would do at the point when I realized my gun was falling to the ground, but your advice here is good and I'll remember that.

 

[jeremy]

3) Always remember, if you drop the weapon let it fall. Do not grab for it trying to save your finish... just let it go. It's happened too many times where someone has fumbled for their falling Glock and wound up shooting themselves or someone else when they grabbed it quickly and hit the trigger.

So how about juggling?! It is not exactly dropping the Pistol...

 

[MilitaryArms]

For the record, I do have a quality holster that covers the trigger. I'm not new to carrying a weapon, just somewhat new to striker fired ones. And as stated before, I'm confident in my mastery of gun safety (and keeping my finger off the trigger has been engrained in my head for the past 20 years). The main question I had was the lack of an external safety for a carry weapon issue. I'm in no way scared of this gun and am totally comfortable with it, I just wanted to hear what everyone else thought.

No problem, I wasn't really talking to you directly but making a general statement. I gathered from your post you were pretty well versed in handgun usage, but I tend to go off on tangents and type a lot.

Full-Auto~You brought up something I hadn't really thought about in #3 in regards to reaching for a dropped gun. I havn't fumbled mine yet so I hadn't considered what I would do at the point when I realized my gun was falling to the ground, but your advice here is good and I'll remember that.

Of course grabbing for any falling weapon is dangerous, but it's especially dangerous with a striker fired pistol that lacks a safety. If you practice a lot presenting from a holster, it's going to happen eventually. For me I had a couple of mishaps years ago when I first started practicing drawing from a concealment holster. It usually happens when you start to try to go faster thinking speed is more important than form or accuracy.... I haven't dropped a pistol in quite a while, but I do exactly what I said here when I do - and that's let it fall.

 

[MilitaryArms]

So how about juggling?! It is not exactly dropping the Pistol...

Juggling... good point.

Want to hear a not so funny story?

Here in Valpo at a bar that used to be named Bin Willy's they had a security guy that was a Gary cop. His name was Phil.

I watched Phil pull out his Glock one night in the parking lot that he carried while working the door and spin it on his finger, showing off. I couldn't freaking believe it. It went straight from his holster to his finger and to spinning... I was absolutely floored. I was walking to my car at the time and I told my buddy "check Phil out, he's about to kill someone by accident".

Thank God the pistol was either unloaded (why carry it unloaded?) or it just didn't go off during his moment of extreme stupidity.

 

[jeremy]

WOW that is all I can say to that one... I don't even spin my single actions...

 

[indymike]

I'm of the opinion that there is little point to carrying an unloaded weapon. When stress hits, fumbling with your gun and racking the slide while trying to focus on the threat, especially a very close one (7 yards is the typical gunfight distance)... it's just a bad idea.

I've yet to find a single top rated training facility like Thunder Range or Front Site that recommend such a method of carry.

I carry my striker pistols like any other, with a round chambered.

Glock's, XD's, M&P's, etc. are very poor novice CCW weapons. You really need to understand, and have burned into muscle memory, the basics of firearms safety before carrying one daily. By the basics I mean keeping the booger hook off the bang switch until the weapon is pointed at the target. Not being well practiced in their use prior to CCW carry is a recipe for an AD (ND if you wish). It happens all too often.

If you're a veteran striker gun shooter and you don't have a problem with keeping your finger off the trigger, it's second nature to you... then a Glock or any other striker pistol is probably the best CCW weapon made. They are fast into action and have consistent trigger pulls which give them an advantage in a stressful situation.

The most important things about carrying a striker pistol once safety is mastered are:

1) Get a good quality holster that covers the trigger. I prefer open top holsters for their speed, but thumb break holsters are fine as well.
2) Always make sure the mouth of the holster is clear of obstructions before reholstering. This is especially true while wearing a cover garment like a jacket. If a draw string or edge of the jacket finds its way into the trigger guard while you're reholstering... this could be the result:

Yes, that's blood on the grip from an AD that hit an officer in his leg while reholstering.

3) Always remember, if you drop the weapon let it fall. Do not grab for it trying to save your finish... just let it go. It's happened too many times where someone has fumbled for their falling Glock and wound up shooting themselves or someone else when they grabbed it quickly and hit the trigger.

If this scares you, get a double action auto and avoid the striker pistols. You can't be scared of your CCW weapon and use it effectively. Get a weapon you're 100% comfortable with while it's loaded and ready for use.

Outstanding post. Thanks for sharing your insight!

 

[MrSmitty]

I was , at first scared, to carry my xd9 but have been carrying a .38 snub for years, and as Jeff Cooper once said " keep your dang finger out of the dang trigger guard till you're ready to shoot" (not a direct quote) you don't even think about it with a revolver, so same principle, plus I've developed the habit of picking up a gun and feeling for the loaded chamber indicator (PT_111, XD9)

 

[Tenacious1]

For a very long time I only carried a .357 hammerless snubby. It was small, DAO and had a pretty heavy trigger pull. It also tends to ruin pants unless I use a pocket holster. I was very comfortable with it and had several holsters for pants that were most suceptible to pocket damage. When I first decided to start carrying my XD.45, I was a little nervous. I was absolutely confident as I practice with it and knew it inside and out. I've been shooting since I was 9. I decided to test the "safety" features (with the gun unloaded of course). I tried pulling the trigger without the backstrap safety depressed. I tried pulling the trigger without the trigger safety depressed. I tried every concievable way to make the gun accidentally fire (short of dropping it on pavement). I tried hooking buttons, keys in the pocket, loose change (quarter stuck in the trigger), you name it.

I now carry either depending on what I want to wear. And I always carry loaded and ready to point and shoot. But while carrying it either weapon, it either has its own pocket or is holstered unadulterated.

 

[Tenacious1]

I was , at first scared, to carry my xd9 but have been carrying a .38 snub for years, and as Jeff Cooper once said " keep your dang finger out of the dang trigger guard till you're ready to shoot" (not a direct quote) you don't even think about it with a revolver, so same principle, plus I've developed the habit of picking up a gun and feeling for the loaded chamber indicator (PT_111, XD9)

I didn't think about that, but I do the same thing, out of habit. Everytime I handle the weapon, I my thumbs runs over the chamber indicator and the back pin of my XD. I know instantly if a round is chambered and hot.

 

[ThePope]

Carrying, in any way, shape, or form, is a highly personal and emotionally charged act of a mature , responsible gun-owner, and as such , it is of special import to realize that no one on or off the 'net should be taking any one else's advice on the matter.

( Not meaning this as a flaming of the OP, BTW....)

Full-Auto make some very good points, and he sounds like he knows his stuff around pistols, good post, dude.

We all should carry to our level of training, or lack, there-of, to do anything less than that would be irresponsible and quite possibly dangerous to themselves, and those near them. Every shot that leaves your gun is YOUR responsibility, no one elses', and YOU must be ready to explain all firearm dis-charges, no matter if you meant to shoot or not.

Firearms have been successfully deployed in all manner of condition of carry since invented, and only in recent times has the thought of carry with a round chambered (or the hammer over a live round, which is still a no-no) been considered a "normal" carry method, as such,
to those who may say some carry a brick, if not carrying to their method, I say " bollocks"...a brick that can be charged in a nano-second is by no means a brick, nor a club, nor is it un-loaded as some may say, it is still an easily racked or cocked weapon of potentially deadly ammo.

It should be treated as such.

My opinion, worth-less, of course, except to me.....

IyAM oUT....

 

[Larryjr]

HighStrung I will tell you I am fairly new to the striker fired world myself. When I first started carrying the striker fired pistol it did make me a bit nervous. But as I have practiced and learned more about these types of weapons I have become completely comfortable. I too have an M&P without the safety and man do I love this gun.

 

[HighStrung]

My opinion, worth-less, of course, except to me.....

IyAM oUT....

Quite the opposite my friend. While I (the OP) understand that the internet is nothing more than everyone posting their opinions, much can still be learned from those opinions. Do I take everyone"s (or for that matter, anyone's) word for gold, absolutely not. Just because someone has 3,000 posts doesn't make them right either. I didn't plan on changing my operating methods simply because someone said so-and-so. I did however ask for how people felt about a given issue, and thats exactly what they (including you) responded with. I've learned a lot on these forums because they draw from a wide range of experience levels and different outlooks on nearly every topic known to man, and thats what I love about INGO. I've never felt like people try to steer someone in the wrong direction, but I also filter any information I read and will still do only what I am comfortable with. As I mentioned in the first post, I already carry with one in the chamber, I just wanted to hear other's opinions. I do appriciate your opinion on the subject as well.