Carry At Work Language

[BigMatt]

I am at a position in the company I work for, and am comfortable enough with the COO to breech the subject of carry at work.

He is very conservative, but just thought that the legal ramifications weren't worth risking and just has made a no firearms policy in the employee handbook.

After our talk, I think I pumped him up enough that he has decided to talk to the lawyers about liability and look into amending our employee handbook to allow carry in the office (no carry in the warehouse area as we store liquified gas in pressurized containers).

It is my job, however, to come up with some language that would be the revised firearms policy.

I am looking to you guys to see what might be some things to think about when designing a firearms policy for our company. Any information would be good and links to examples would be better.

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[Andre46996]

Are you a lawyer?

I would think it would be a good job for a lawyer to come up with the wording for that policy since it would be the companies butt in a sling.

If carry is not disallowed why would you need a policy? Is Indiana law not good enough? NO LTCH NO CARRY, with the exception of the warehouse there should be no need for any special policy if the company decides to stop infringing on the rights of it's employees.

 

[shooter521]

What kind of policy do you have in mind? How 'bout just saying NOTHING on the subject and letting employees do as they see fit? Works for my company...

 

[Andre46996]

What kind of policy do you have in mind? How 'bout just saying NOTHING on the subject and letting employees do as they see fit? Works for my company...

Tried to rep you but I am out!!!

That is what i was saying you just said it nicer and more PC.

 

[rambone]

"No firearms in warehouse area, please."

 

[dross]

As someone who has written these kinds of policies in the past (not about firearms, but other equally inflammatory subjects) I suggest you first try to find a policy implemented somewhere else that has been tested. Doubt you'll find it.

Next, check your different company liability insurance. I'll bet you're going to find in your general liability policy some requirement that you don't allow firearms. At that point, you're most likely dead in the water, because you aren't going to get the insurance company to change, and your boss isn't likely going to want to pay enhanced premiums.

Next, check the building you're in. If your company isn't the landlord, there may be a policy in place that you will violate as a tenant.

If you pass all of those hurtles, write the policy and then run it by a lawyer. Don't let the lawyer write it. Have a face to face with the lawyer after he reviews the policy. Lawyers are there to make sure you're legal, they often don't consider the goal of your policy as much as the liability. There's always a balance, and you should win some of those battles.

After all that, it should be smooth sailin'. Still jazzed about it?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Some places, as I've read on message boards like this one (if that matters!) have language that say "no illegal weapons allowed"...

My previous employer didn't even HAVE an employee handbook...

-J-

 

[shibumiseeker]

Some places, as I've read on message boards like this one (if that matters!) have language that say "no illegal weapons allowed"...


-J-

This. A company is much better off having a don't ask don't tell policy for weapons than to specifically enumerate one.

 

[infidel]

This. A company is much better off having a don't ask don't tell policy for weapons than to specifically enumerate one.

Yep.

The sign at Gander Mountain comes to mind. It says something like, "No loaded firearms inside. This does not apply to handgun license holders".

 

[BigMatt]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I am of the opinion that a don't ask don't tell policy would work, but we do need some regulations for the warehouse/production area.

The insurance is the only thing that I am worried about. We won't pay more to allow firearms on site.

I am not a lawyer, but the language that I would propose would be reviewed by our lawyers.

Any more?

 

[youngda9]

"Unlicensed carrying of weapons is prohibited on company property."

Then just put a "no firearms allowed" next to the "Dangerous explosives inside" sign at the enterence of the warehouse

 

[furbymac]

just looked in my hand book and it says the following may result in disciplinary action up to and including discharge: blah blah blah unauthorized possession,use or sale of weapons, firearms, or explosive devices on company property; blah blah blah (the rest just states stuff about sexual harrisment and drug use and the such

 

[minuteman32]

I used to work for a company that hired another company to write an employee manual. Until then it was just whatever the owner said, went. He kept a 380 in his car & I kept a 45 under my shirt. The new manual had the obligitory "No weapons". I told the owner that it would apply to him, too (he didn't like that). I suggested he re-word it to "No illegal weapons on company or customer property". If you didn't have a LTCH, you could still have long guns. With a LTCH, you could carry whatever you wanted. That is what he went with.

 

[ryanmercer]

Our handbook says "unless allowed by law" well, I'm allowed by law thanks to my permit but I took it all the way to the top to corporate security and legal in Memphis (FedEx) and their determination was "no, that doesn't count" hopefully SB25 gets through.

The crappy thing is we have to sign a form every 6 months that lists a bajillion and a half things... it specifically lists tear gas, grenades, shoulder fired rockets, mortars, handguns, rifles and goes on to list another few dozen items including knives of any kind, however we can have plastic el-cheapo butter knives... just not metal ones... nice policy for a company founded by a Marine.

I hate the way they word things, legalspeek should be illegal... everything is worded so that either way they win. If someone they like brings a gun to work and goes walker texas ranger on some bad guys hey he/she is a hero and was within the rules of the company, if Peggy Sue brings a gun to work legally, becuase she's got a restraining order on her ex-husband because he beat her within an inch of her life a time or two, and uses it to kill him when he's trying to beat her to death in the parking lot afte rhe pulled her out of her car... well Peggy had too many sick days so they use it as grounds to terminate her.

Legalspeek is bad especially when it's in employer literature

 

[bigus_D]

BigMatt,

I'm in a similar situation with my employeer... The handbook said something to the effect of "The following are examples of the types of offenses that will normally result in immediate discharge: 1. On site gambling 2. Theft or sabotage 3. The possession of weapons on company property..."

I had a discussion with the CEO about workplace violence. I meantioned that I carry my pistol everywhere I go (except for the office due to the policy in place) and then the very next day there was an office shooting down in Florida, so I sent him a link to the breaking news. By the end of that day, the policy was changed to read "... the possission of illegal weapons on company property."

Of course, he had to check with the office space leasing terms (which were silent on the subject) and bully the HR department a bit (who were viamently against the change)... but it is his company, so he did what he wanted to do.

Good luck!

 

[kludge]

"Unlicensed carrying of weapons is prohibited on company property."

Then just put a "no firearms allowed" next to the "Dangerous explosives inside" sign at the enterence of the warehouse

I would say "Illegal carrying of weapons and firearms is prohibited in the workplace. Discipline up to and incuding termination will result, in addition to criminal prosecution." That way the bliss ninnies won't get their undies in a bunch. They all just assume it's illegal.

At the entrance to the warehouse you could post a sign something like:

"DANGER! HAZARDOUS MATERIALS STORAGE AREA!​

SECURE AREA​

NO SMOKING, NO OPEN FLAMES, NO FIREARMS, NO IGNITION SOURCES ALLOWED BEYOND THIS POINT.

AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY."​

If you have a sign made everyone will assume it was just ordered out of some catalog.​

 

[Lars]

The company I worked for last originally had a "No Weapons" policy in the handbook.

It now reads, "No illegal weapons"

 

[Lars]

On a related note....

I've been thinking about this. If a company like Pizza Hut wants to say that their delivery drivers are not allowed to carry weapons for self defense while on the job because they're afraid of being sued by a customer for "sending a man to my house with a gun."

Does that give the employee's family the right to sue Pizza Hut, if their family member is killed on a delivery "For sending him to that house without a chance to defend himself."

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Lars, if a family affected in this way wanted to find out in court, I would donate to their cause. I couldn't carry all of the legal fees myself, but I'm down for $500 or so.

 

[bigus_D]

On a related note....

I've been thinking about this. If a company like Pizza Hut wants to say that their delivery drivers are not allowed to carry weapons for self defense while on the job because they're afraid of being sued by a customer for "sending a man to my house with a gun."

Does that give the employee's family the right to sue Pizza Hut, if their family member is killed on a delivery "For sending him to that house without a chance to defend himself."

I understand the sentiment, but am totally against this sort of (liberal minded) litigation.

The employee has every right not to work for the employeer. Go find another job if you don't feel comfortable working without your weapon. It is definitely not Pizza Hut's fault if somebody else shoots you. Nobody is making you deliver pizzas...