Can a LEO require you to show them your gun?

[TheSpark]

Sorry if this has been asked before but I could not find anything on it.

In Indiana can a LEO require you to hand over your gun during any interaction with them that does not involve a criminal offense or the reasonable suspicion that one has been committed? For example, during a traffic stop for speeding or any other traffic offense that only calls for a citation.

I know they can request to see your LTCH paper but do they also have the right to see the gun(s)?

By the way, first time poster and just recently bought my first gun and waiting to get my first LTCH.

 

[kiddchaos]

Np. Welcome.
Several people here have posted about being pulled over and the officer holding the gun and doing a LTCH check. Usually it's due to the people telling the officer they have one.

I would say as little as possible. If you are just sitting in the car getting your ticket, then fine.
I believe they have to have your consent to search your vehicle or probable cause.
I'll add more links in a minute as to why.

 

[iChokePeople]

Refuse to allow the LEO to disarm you "for his protection" when he requests your firearm. See how that goes for you. Please get good video.

 

[TheSpark]

I believe they have to have your consent to search your vehicle or probable cause. I'll add more links in a minute as to why.

Let's assume though you admitted you had the gun on you or they could see it. Do they have a legal right to require you to hand it over for their safety or any other reason?

 

[eldirector]

Let's assume though you admitted you had the gun on you or they could see it. Do they have a legal right to require you to hand it over for their safety or any other reason?

A) Pretty sure the courts have upheld the stop, detainment, and temporary seizure of property for "officer safety". Can't site the case(s) off-hand.

B) The side of road isn't the place to challenge it. You are as likely to get a smart, relaxed LEO as a poorly-trained and jumpy one.

C) The courts have also stated that once the LTCH has been verified, that all questions regarding the legally carried handgun must stop.

So, LE can do pretty much as they wish, and your only recourse is to take it up with their CO or the courts later.

Luckily, at least in my experience, the vast majority of LE really don't care if you are carrying or not. At least, if you are not doing something fairly illegal (more than a traffic violation) anyway.

 

[kiddchaos]

Let's assume though you admitted you had the gun on you or they could see it. Do they have a legal right to require you to hand it over for their safety or any other reason?

If they know you have it and they ask for it, then yes. And you should get it back if it's all good.
I support the police, but I don't want to go thru any extra checks if possible.

 

[TheSpark]

If they know you have it and they ask for it, then yes. And you should get it back if it's all good.
I support the police, but I don't want to go thru any extra checks if possible.

Wouldn't that mean they would be able to ask (require) to see anything on you or in your car if that was the case. For example, they would like to make sure there is not a bomb in that suitcase in your back seat (for their protection).

 

[iChokePeople]

Wouldn't that mean they would be able to ask (require) to see anything on you or in your car if that was the case. For example, they would like to make sure there is not a bomb in that suitcase in your back seat (for their protection).

kiddchaos' statement was 'if they know you have it'. Is your question following that line, do they KNOW you have a bomb in your suitcase? Or is there just a suitcase in your car?

 

[MPH]

Wouldn't that mean they would be able to ask (require) to see anything on you or in your car if that was the case. For example, they would like to make sure there is not a bomb in that suitcase in your back seat (for their protection).

A police officer can Ask. Do you have to be honest? Maybe not, but then again, why would you lie? If your demeanor is straightforward and in no way combative in speech or actions, I don't ask to see the weapon, I just advise the driver to keep the weapon in its place, and I've never had an issue with an armed motorist after having said this.

 

[kiddchaos]

TheSpark: I think this was the video you should watch. This was posted before.
[www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkpOpLvBAr8]

 

[TheSpark]

kiddchaos' statement was 'if they know you have it'. Is your question following that line, do they KNOW you have a bomb in your suitcase? Or is there just a suitcase in your car?

Yea, but why is them knowing you have a legal item in your car, like a gun, give them any right to inspect it or take it from you for a short time?

I guess my real question is could you end up in legal trouble if you refused? Granted even if the answer is no I understand you might have to take a ride if the LEO is ignorant of the law.

 

[Booya]

I think it's all in how you say, what you need/want to say. I've refused to hand over my firearm to police before. The interaction was mutually respectful up to that point and remained so during and after.

He asked for the weapon (in my center console). Remember he "asked" for it, he didn't demand it. I responded by saying I thought it best if neither of us touched it and just left it completely alone. He said, "ok, that's fine then" and that was that. I wasn't a jerk about it, he was being polite so I was being polite.

It's not necessarily what you say, it's how you say it. Virtually all these filmed interactions we see are filmed by some dip$#!t with an attitude out looking for an interaction (<trouble). If these guys were a bit less standoffish and more polite and respectful, the LEOs probably would be also. In some cases anyway, not all.

 

[dansgotguns]

TheSpark: I think this was the video you should watch. This was posted before.
[www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkpOpLvBAr8]

Doesnt work

 

[Booya]

A police officer can Ask. Do you have to be honest? Maybe not, but then again, why would you lie? If your demeanor is straightforward and in no way combative in speech or actions...

Why would they ask? If it's not pertinent to the stop/interaction? I would lie because (as you will soon learn on here) a lot of LEO aren't like you. I'm not trying to be disarmed nor am I trying to introduce an entirely new scenario into the interaction, lengthen the interaction. Admitting to having a firearm, most times, seems to be "opening a whole new can of worms".

 

[MPH]

I don't ask everyone I stop, but if I see a handgun permit, I do. I don't know the driver; not everyone who has a permit is mentally or emotionally stable. I think you said it best in an earlier reply: So much depends on how the motorist acts, a 'totality of cirmcumstances', if you will.

 

[kiddchaos]

Doesnt work

Link works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkpOpLvBAr8

 

[iChokePeople]

huh. it does for me. just copy and paste without the brackets.

Embedding assist:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkpOpLvBAr8

 

[ATM]

I would decline any requests to hand over my gun.

I would decline consent to take my gun.

I would not physically resist if they decided to disarm me anyway, but would follow up with some level of complaint after the event.

 

[TEK]

I have a little problem with the premises of the question, because if there is a pullover it is probably because there is a reasonable suspicion in the first place. example of this, case yesterday came down from INdiana Sups about tinted window violation, reasonable belief was good enough for pullover even if it turned out to be incorrect; motion to suppress the dope and ensuing appeal after conviction failed.
Erving Sanders v State of Indiana

if there is a reasonable suspicion, then then a safety search of the passenger compartment is permissible. I dont remember that case name but its not too hard to find-- thats a US Sup case. I dont think the LTCH makes a safety check off limits for an officer. It just doesnt. Maybe, however, you could make a good argument that there is a big difference between a LTCH licensee having a piece, and somebody else having one-- obvioulsy one thing is a crime and the other isnt; but there may be issues of officer safety either way.

bottom line if they want to see the piece, better show them, because they are in a position to force you to show them in a really unpleasant way

 

[92ThoStro]

Respectfully tell them you would rather have it remain safely right in its holster.
If they demand that you disarm, tell them you would rather not handle the gun in the presence of an officer.
Make them disarm you themselves.
File a complaint after they disarm you.

If they want you to hand them the gun, or unholster it and set it down, or any other number of things they are not concerned about safety. Make sure to keep that in mind.


Ugh TEK, you are absolutely incorrect, they cannot search your vehicle because they had a reason to stop you, not even for Officer's Safety. If something like a firearm is visible, or you tell them you have a firearm, they can go straight to that firearm and seize it for the duration of the stop, but they cannot search your back seats, under your front seats, your trunk, etc for other items.