? buying SBR

[dt36]

When buying a SBR rifle can you take home the upper before the stamp comes back, because the SN is on the lower?

 

[MontereyC6]

When buying a SBR rifle can you take home the upper before the stamp comes back, because the SN is on the lower?

If you're referring to an AR, technically yes, but if you have another AR at home it gets muddy. Some would construe it as constructive intent.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

If you're referring to an AR, technically yes, but if you have another AR at home it gets muddy. Some would construe it as constructive intent.

I think they did away with the constructive intent. I think.

 

[dt36]

Thats what I was thinking. Yes I am referring to an AR. I currently have an AR and was wondering how that would look.

 

[MontereyC6]

I agree with you both. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it, others will. You can always build a pistol lower and put it on that. I guess my question would be, why bring it home if you have nothing to put it on?

 

[ryknoll3]

I think they did away with the constructive intent. I think.

No, they didn't, because there was never such a thing as constructive intent.

What you're thinking of is constructive possession. It's basically a legal doctrine that states that if you have all of the parts to make an illegal weapon, and no clear LEGAL use for those parts, they can charge and convict you on having the illegal weapon.

When people say, "They did away with constructive intent (possession)" they are referring to a recent ATF opinion that was a follow-up to the US v Thompson-Center case where the Supreme Court ruled that having the parts for a Thompson Center Encore both to use it as a pistol and a rifle was not illegal.

The follow-up ATF opinion basically stated that if you had a firearm that started out as a pistol and it was a kit or modular-type firearm, you could convert it from a pistol to a rifle and back again, as well as own the parts for both configurations and it would all be legal. If your firearm started life as a rifle, it could NOT be converted to a pistol and back.

The key is that you have a legal use for all of the parts, and your firearm started life as a pistol.

In the OP's case, if you bought an SBR, you COULD take the upper home while you're waiting on the paperwork. However, if you own other AR rifles and do NOT own any AR pistols, you could still be charged with possession of an unregistered short-barrel rifle, as you don't currently have ANY legal use for that short upper. If you have a pistol lower, you would be OK. If you have no other AR rifles you would also be OK.

Basically constructive possession means that you have the parts to make an illegal firearm, and you have no LEGAL use for those parts.

Another example would be having an AR and all of the FCG parts for an M16. You have the parts to make an illegal machinegun, and no legal use for those parts. Now, if you had a legal, registered M16, you could have extra parts laying around as spares.

 

[cuemily]

No, they didn't, because there was never such a thing as constructive intent.

What you're thinking of is constructive possession. It's basically a legal doctrine that states that if you have all of the parts to make an illegal weapon, and no clear LEGAL use for those parts, they can charge and convict you on having the illegal weapon.

When people say, "They did away with constructive intent (possession)" they are referring to a recent ATF opinion that was a follow-up to the US v Thompson-Center case where the Supreme Court ruled that having the parts for a Thompson Center Encore both to use it as a pistol and a rifle was not illegal.

The follow-up ATF opinion basically stated that if you had a firearm that started out as a pistol and it was a kit or modular-type firearm, you could convert it from a pistol to a rifle and back again, as well as own the parts for both configurations and it would all be legal. If your firearm started life as a rifle, it could NOT be converted to a pistol and back.

The key is that you have a legal use for all of the parts, and your firearm started life as a pistol.

In the OP's case, if you bought an SBR, you COULD take the upper home while you're waiting on the paperwork. However, if you own other AR rifles and do NOT own any AR pistols, you could still be charged with possession of an unregistered short-barrel rifle, as you don't currently have ANY legal use for that short upper. If you have a pistol lower, you would be OK. If you have no other AR rifles you would also be OK.

Basically constructive possession means that you have the parts to make an illegal firearm, and you have no LEGAL use for those parts.

Another example would be having an AR and all of the FCG parts for an M16. You have the parts to make an illegal machinegun, and no legal use for those parts. Now, if you had a legal, registered M16, you could have extra parts laying around as spares.

Couldnt have said it any better.

 

[Beowulf]

And we see clearly how stupid the law is.

You have two identical stripped lowers. One has a magic wand waved over it that says "Pistol" and the other has one that says "Rifle".

Own the first and a short barreled upper (unassembled) and you are fine. Own the other and a short barreled upper (unassembled) and you go to jail (and yeah, I know most stripped lowers are never assembled prior to sale, so this generally isn't a concern).

Of course, the only way to know the difference is to back track the serial numbers of the lowers back to the manufacturer to figure out which magic wand they waved over them (or if they wave no magic wand at all, and it's in the "white"), unless they engraved the words "pistol" or "rifle" into the receiver. But even then, that doesn't matter if they went into the manufacturers books the other way around.

Ridiculous.

 

[ryknoll3]

And we see clearly how stupid the law is.

You have two identical stripped lowers. One has a magic wand waved over it that says "Pistol" and the other has one that says "Rifle".

Own the first and a short barreled upper (unassembled) and you are fine. Own the other and a short barreled upper (unassembled) and you go to jail (and yeah, I know most stripped lowers are never assembled prior to sale, so this generally isn't a concern).

Of course, the only way to know the difference is to back track the serial numbers of the lowers back to the manufacturer to figure out which magic wand they waved over them (or if they wave no magic wand at all, and it's in the "white"), unless they engraved the words "pistol" or "rifle" into the receiver. But even then, that doesn't matter if they went into the manufacturers books the other way around.

Ridiculous.

Manufacturers don't designate a stripped lower as a rifle or pistol unless they are built as such. They are receivers, plain and simple. ANY stripped lower can be built as a pistol until and unless it is built as a rifle.

 

[Beowulf]

Manufacturers don't designate a stripped lower as a rifle or pistol unless they are built as such. They are receivers, plain and simple. ANY stripped lower can be built as a pistol until and unless it is built as a rifle.

Ahem...

And we see clearly how stupid the law is.

You have two identical stripped lowers. One has a magic wand waved over it that says "Pistol" and the other has one that says "Rifle".

Own the first and a short barreled upper (unassembled) and you are fine. Own the other and a short barreled upper (unassembled) and you go to jail (and yeah, I know most stripped lowers are never assembled prior to sale, so this generally isn't a concern).

The real issue is if you buy a used receiver, how would you know? Basically, the receivers are in a quantum state of flux until someone checks, much like Schrodinger's cat. The fact that you can go from pistol to rifle but not rifle to pistol (without a tax stamp) is completely idiotic.

Shotguns are a good example of this when it comes to pistol grips. There is always one table at the 1500 that has a pile of old pump shotguns with no stocks whatsoever. Now, I'm pretty sure they've bought them and pulled after market pistol grips off of them because the guns were originally sold with full stocks. But how would you really ever know? How would a law enforcement officer on the scene know? (with the whole 18 or 21 age limit, depending on pistol grip or full stock).

Gun regulations handed down from the ATF are a convoluted jumble of nonsense and from my experience, even they don't know what the hell all of it means. Don't believe me? Try this fun experiment, try calling different ATF branches and asking them about the legality of an non-immigrant alien on an F1 visa purchasing a firearm in the state in which they reside. I did this and got several different answers before finally getting a hold of someone in the DC office who confirmed that the simple paragraph of law that covers this does in fact mean what it states (btw, the answer is "yes" as long as the alien has a valid hunting permit in the state they are residing in).

So my advice to OP is not to mess with it. Take zero chances with the ATF since they have no real idea what is or is not illegal and you don't want them to have to figure that out after you've been arrested and charged with felony possession. Either put a pistol lower on it or move it somewhere else until you get your stamp back. Odds are you'll be fine, but is it really worth all the hassle if something happened (like a break-in in your house)