Bullet setback. I'm stuck

[Sarrsipius]

Bullet setback. help. what's wrong?

I'm new to reloading and started setting up my dies and I'm having trouble with bullet setback. Here is the setup.

Hornady LNL AP using Hornady new dimension 3 die set with taper crimp and bullet seater single die. (9mm lugar)

sizing die is set to where it just contacts the shell plate.

expander die puts just enough bell to set a bullet in the casing (can hardly see any bell with the naked eye).

Seater/crimper die set to 1.100 bullet depth per load data. (Accurate #5, 115gr fmj)

When I chamber a round in my glock 17 I get between .002 and .012 OAL bullet setback. It's on the high end of that range when I chamber a round that has no powder in it but I've gotten as much as .010 with a live round.

There is no further adjustment I can make with the sizing die and I can't do less of a bell with the expander. I played around with the crimp but if I go much more than the current setting it leaves a ring in the FMJ bullet. I know that the crimp isn't to hold the bullet but the sizing die seems to be set correctly so I'm at a loss as to what else to do. I haven't fired any of these rounds yet so I'm unsure if I'll see even more setback when the gun cycles off of a live round.

Is this much setback a problem???

 

[red_zr24x4]

Strip the pistol, use the barrel as a depth guage. Start seating the bullet and drop it in the barrel, keep adjusting the depth until the end of the case is flush or just below the hood of the barrel.

 

[XtremeVel]

First thing I would question is what diameter your expander ball / plug is... The high end of what you state does sound excessive, especially if they are seating that much deeper with only (1) chambering.

I have both Lee and RCBS die for 9mm and polishing the expander ball to .353-.354 has always worked well for me.

I do have a older set of the Hornady New Dimension die's in another caliber and I do not see how the heck you get the expander plug out to mic...

 

[Sarrsipius]

Strip the pistol, use the barrel as a depth guage. Start seating the bullet and drop it in the barrel, keep adjusting the depth until the end of the case is flush or just below the hood of the barrel.

I'm not sure I see how this will do anything for the setback issue? The OAL is fine before chambering.

 

[Sarrsipius]

First thing I would question is what diameter your expander ball / plug is... The high end of what you state does sound excessive, especially if they are seating that much deeper with only (1) chambering.

I have both Lee and RCBS die for 9mm and polishing the expander ball to .353-.354 has always worked well for me.

I do have a older set of the Hornady New Dimension die's in another caliber and I do not see how the heck you get the expander plug out to mic...

there doesn't appear to be a way to remove it from the hornady die. I set it so that it doesn't even make a perceptible bell in the case...just enough to barely set a bullet in and I still have the same issue. Maybe my sizing die is crap.

 

[XtremeVel]

expander die puts just enough bell to set a bullet in the casing (can hardly see any bell with the naked eye).

Just because your bell isn't excessive doesn't mean it's not possible for your expander plug body to be .001 or so oversized... The expander plug does enter your case mouth as it also bells...

I'm not sure I see how this will do anything for the setback issue? The OAL is fine before chambering.

It doesn't... What he described is a good check to make sure your rounds fully chamber and to ensure your pistol will fully go into battery before getting to the range...

 

[hueycrew]

What brand of brass and bullet?

I had issues with Federal most of the time. Trouble with others too. Winchester brass never gave me a problem. Don't try to crimp the issue away.

I went with the EGW undersize die for 9mm after having issues with setback. Its a Lee die with a different dimension. I'll get one for 40SW next.

The decapping/sizing die must be properly adjusted to start with. I'd recheck your current die. Make sure your LNL AP insert isn't chipped or otherwise damaged. I had to replace the inserts on my LNL. The lugs were not properly hardened and were chipping off. Do this first before going with the EGW die. Hornady will ship you the parts.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I thin what red is hinting at, is to make sure that there isn't a possible chamber problem that is causing the setback. Do the tips of the bullets look like they could possibly be engaging the rifling? As unlikely as it is, there is a possibility that your chamber is not correctly cut. It's far more likely a problem with crimp, but you never know.

 

[Sarrsipius]

It doesn't... What he described is a good check to make sure your rounds fully chamber and to ensure your pistol will fully go into battery before getting to the range...

gotcha. I use a case gage for that and have had no issues with rounds sliding freely and fully into it.

 

[Sarrsipius]

What brand of brass and bullet?

I had issues with Federal most of the time. Trouble with others too. Winchester brass never gave me a problem. Don't try to crimp the issue away.

I went with the EGW undersize die for 9mm after having issues with setback. Its a Lee die with a different dimension. I'll get one for 40SW next.

The decapping/sizing die must be properly adjusted to start with. I'd recheck your current die. Make sure your LNL AP insert isn't chipped or otherwise damaged. I had to replace the inserts on my LNL. The lugs were not properly hardened and were chipping off. Do this first before going with the EGW die. Hornady will ship you the parts.

It's mixed headstamp. 115gr FMJ montana gold bullets.

I adjusted the decapping/sizing die so that it just barely touches the shell plate when the ram is all the way up.

I'm only crimping so that the case wall is straight. No crimp against the bullet.

 

[Sarrsipius]

I thin what red is hinting at, is to make sure that there isn't a possible chamber problem that is causing the setback. Do the tips of the bullets look like they could possibly be engaging the rifling? As unlikely as it is, there is a possibility that your chamber is not correctly cut. It's far more likely a problem with crimp, but you never know.

no, no sign of that. With the 115gr fmj bullets and AA#5 the OAL is 1.1. I shoot factory ammo with OAL of 1.5 all the time so I'm confident that I don't have an issue with the barrel.

I don't think it is a crimp issue because the taper crimp isn't what prevents setback. It should be the sizing or the expander that is the problem. I just can't find it. I may have to just but different die's and see what happens.

 

[rockhopper46038]

no, no sign of that. With the 115gr fmj bullets and AA#5 the OAL is 1.1. I shoot factory ammo with OAL of 1.5 all the time so I'm confident that I don't have an issue with the barrel.

I don't think it is a crimp issue because the taper crimp isn't what prevents setback. It should be the sizing or the expander that is the problem. I just can't find it. I may have to just but different die's and see what happens.

I don't know where on the northside you are, but if you want to borrow my set of Lee 9mm dies before you buy a new set, you're welcome to.

 

[XtremeVel]

gotcha. I use a case gage for that and have had no issues with rounds sliding freely and fully into it.

Using a case gauge is good, but I would also use the actual barrel too... I have seen often times loads that drop into the gauge fine hang up in so called " match grade" barrels or " short chambered " barrels when using certain profile bullets...

Back to your issue... I doubt it's your sizing die... I have never seen a sizing die being " crap", at least not yet... I have saw where it took a light polishing on the expander plug to achieve the case/mouth tension I wanted...

Remember, good hold on the bullet is more a function of correct case/mouth tension, rather than crimp...

 

[Sarrsipius]

I discovered that the Remington brass doesn't seem to have the issue but the federal brass does. That sucks because I have a lot of federal brass. Is there anything I can do to make the federal brass work (assuming it's a brass issue)

 

[Sarrsipius]

definately seems to be a brass issue. I tried Aguilla brass and it was fine as well. I suppose I could try a different bullet in the federal and see if that works. It won't work with montana gold FMJ's though. Any suggestions? I'd like to try Berry's plated bullets. I think they are .356 as opposed to the MG .355. That may be enough to work....hopefully.

 

[XtremeVel]

definately seems to be a brass issue. I tried Aguilla brass and it was fine as well. I suppose I could try a different bullet in the federal and see if that works. It won't work with montana gold FMJ's though. Any suggestions? I'd like to try Berry's plated bullets. I think they are .356 as opposed to the MG .355. That may be enough to work....hopefully.

If you can't push the bullet in with moderate pressure using your thumb, but you get set back chambering, you're probably not lacking much. That .001 could very well make the difference... This still doesn't give you the permanent answer though as to whether a different sizing die or expander die would make the difference.

Just wish I knew how Hornady expects you to drop the expander ball to mic... Still looking at it here. LOL You would of thought they'd at least give you a 1/8 clearance hole on top so you could tap it out... On the Lee's and RCBS you just pull them out the top...

 

[Fullmag]

Check the OAL of the brass. Appears to me like your not getting enough tension on the bullet. Different OAL's on brass or different wall thickness will give you this problem. Mixed headstamps could be your problem.

 

[Sarrsipius]

Check the OAL of the brass. Appears to me like your not getting enough tension on the bullet. Different OAL's on brass or different wall thickness will give you this problem. Mixed headstamps could be your problem.

the federal brass appears to be about .001-.002 thinner. (according to my un-calibrated calipers)

 

[Sarrsipius]

If you can't push the bullet in with moderate pressure using your thumb, but you get set back chambering, you're probably not lacking much. That .001 could very well make the difference... This still doesn't give you the permanent answer though as to whether a different sizing die or expander die would make the difference.

Just wish I knew how Hornady expects you to drop the expander ball to mic... Still looking at it here. LOL You would of thought they'd at least give you a 1/8 clearance hole on top so you could tap it out... On the Lee's and RCBS you just pull them out the top...

True. But if I can get the federal brass to work with these dies and berry's bullets then I'll be ok with that.

 

[sloughfoot]

Sir, the resizing die is the die that the rest of the dies on a progressive work around. For a pistol cartridge like the 9mm, the press must make firm contact with the bottom of this die.

A light touch as you described is not optimal. Screw this die down until it firmly stops the upward movement of the shell carrier. And be sure that all slack is completely removed from the linkage when the shell carrier is stopped.

Then adjust the other dies off this baseline. You might not be fully resizing your cases by allowing slack in the mechanism.

A 9mm reloaded cartridge should have a bell shape as should all reloaded pistol cartridges. Mixed headstamps have never changed any of this for me.

That is where I would start before I get too discouraged.

(BTW. .002 to .012 setback is not worth worrying about)