ATF going door to door

[tscherry70]

Obviously, this is not legal without a warrant and I think it's a bullying tactic on their part. Plus, this affirms that they have a registry (but I already knew that).

 

[Keith_Indy]

Reporting Multiple Firearms Sales or Other Dispositions | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

NEW To assist its efforts in investigating and combating the illegal movement of firearms along and across the Southwest border, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is now requiring all licensed manufacturers and importers (in addition to dealers and pawnbrokers who are...

www.atf.gov

Reporting Multiple Firearms Sales​

The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to send a report to ATF when there is a sale of multiple firearms to the same purchaser within a certain time period.
ATF uses the information gathered from multiple sales transactions to investigate possible firearms trafficking cases. If one or more firearms recovered from a crime are part of a multiple purchase, this could be an indicator of potential firearms trafficking. Crime guns recovered shortly after a multiple sale is known as a short time-to-crime ratio.

 

[tscherry70]

Reporting Multiple Firearms Sales or Other Dispositions | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

NEW To assist its efforts in investigating and combating the illegal movement of firearms along and across the Southwest border, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is now requiring all licensed manufacturers and importers (in addition to dealers and pawnbrokers who are...

www.atf.gov

Do they need a warrant?

 

[gregr]

Bullies and jack-booted thugs are what they are.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Do they need a warrant?

To enter your house yes.

Up to you if you show them the firearms that they have listed.

What Should You Do If the ATF Knocks at Your Door? - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ Knock, knock… As you are probably aware, our friends at the ATF have been busy little elves this holiday season. First they raided Polymer80 because they’ve decided that their Buy Build Shoot all-in-one 80% frame pistol build kit should now be considered a...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[KellyinAvon]

Also being discussed in the thread below. A bit of cross-posting here but I think this one needs a separate thread.

Thread stands!

House Dems pushing SemiAutomatic Weapons ban.

I guess I will be the libertarian here and remind everyone that so many of these politicians have violated the constitution with such regularity that they are beyond "high crimes and misdemeanors" and more closely resemble traitors that should be hanged. We are weak. We continue to wait for...

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[Keith_Indy]

Bullies and jack-booted thugs are what they are.

You have to wonder, is the police officer there to effect an arrest of the gun owner, or to protect the ATF agent.

 

[KG1]

Also being discussed in the thread below. A bit of cross-posting here but I think this one needs a separate thread.

Thread stands!

House Dems pushing SemiAutomatic Weapons ban.

I guess I will be the libertarian here and remind everyone that so many of these politicians have violated the constitution with such regularity that they are beyond "high crimes and misdemeanors" and more closely resemble traitors that should be hanged. We are weak. We continue to wait for...

www.indianagunowners.com

Ok but I'm not gonna repost all the well thought out posts that I took the time to post in those other threads on the subject.

 

[Notalentbum]

Kinda makes me want to go buy a couple new AR’s!

 

[KG1]

Ok since you insist. Here's one I posted in the other thread where I made the observation that the ATF agent at one point in time told the guy that he did nothing wrong, absolutely zero when they were still trying to coax him into cooperating with them.

You just admitted that there is no evidence of wrongdoing, then you obviously cannot produce a warrant so it's time to end this encounter and leave my property.

I am under no obligation to participate in this conversation or cooperate in an attempt to coax me into voluntarily waiving my 4th amendment rights to prove to you that I didn't commit a crime. Have a nice day.

 

[Scuba591]

It was either the '86 ban or the '94 ban that requires ATF to do this on multiple, same time purchases. I agree though, just because they have a job to do does not mean I need to help them complete it.

 

[tscherry70]

It was either the '86 ban or the '94 ban that requires ATF to do this on multiple, same time purchases. I agree though, just because they have a job to do does not mean I need to help them complete it.

Agreed.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It was either the '86 ban or the '94 ban that requires ATF to do this on multiple, same time purchases. I agree though, just because they have a job to do does not mean I need to help them complete it.

I know that FFLs are required to file the additional form for these purchases but is the ATF required to follow up on every one in person? I can't see them doing that, but I could be wrong.

 

[KG1]

I'm just curious what they would have done if the guy didn't cooperate. Like someone posted in the other thread when the ATF agent told the guy that if you just show us the firearms to confirm that you still have them, we're out of here. Does that imply that they won't leave if he doesn't show them? What happens next?

 

[snapping turtle]

Exercise your “NO” muscle.
Working this muscle out often might be a benefit to the community as a whole.

 

[fullmetaljesus]

Curious.

Let's say ATF assholes show up like this with a trooper in tow. Could you ask for the ATF agents names and what's not then turn to the trooper and also for the trooper to trespass the agents from your property. What would the trooper do? Could the trooper do that? I know he probably wouldn't but could he?

 

[KG1]

Exercise your “NO” muscle.
Working this muscle out often might be a benefit to the community as a whole.

Yep. They need to know that this kind of **** won't be tolerated. The message needs to be spread far and wide.

 

[Scuba591]

I know that FFLs are required to file the additional form for these purchases but is the ATF required to follow up on every one in person? I can't see them doing that, but I could be wrong.

I'll have to go back and research it some more. This may have been part of the ban that was just never really done. Perhaps Agents have been instructed to start doing that part of the job. Not sure yet. Also, we know little about the purchaser. Was he on some radar prior to this interaction? All speculation I guess at this point

 

[KG1]

This is another post that I posted in the other thread.

Incidents like these are the reason why gunowners don't trust the ATF. Agents of the State are never acting in the best interest of our Constitutional rights.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The insidious part of this is that most people are of the mindset “I’ve got nothing to hide. They’re just doing their jobs. If I just play along, they’ll get what they need to do their job and go on their way.” The system knows this and exploits it.