AR15 build vs buy

[gregkl]

Any of you have a line on a complete upper with the following:

18" SS 1:8 Twist .223 Wylde chamber mid-length gas system for a price that would make it worth buying complete instead of piecing it together on my own?

 

[WyldeShot]

Careful with "milspec". it is an over used catch phrase that has become tacticool. Mil spec is merely a beginning point of specifications a part must meet to be accepted by the military...and when was the last time the government bought the best thing they could find? If you are looking for accuracy and long range use plus remaining tacticool...look to stoner for a barrel chambered in .223 wylde. its the best compromise with 5.56 mm and .223 commercial ammo. I had a heavy barrel 18" inch threaded stoner in .223 wylde and could easily hold sub moa all day at 100yds. I could also run mid range/close up drills with it and not be overwhelmed by the barrel length or like folks who carry a 24 inch varmint barrel setup, could maneuver much quicker for in house work. Barrel was 250 or so...but in barrels u get what u pay for. If you go looking into Gas Vs. Piston....think about ammo costs....piston setups require more pressure to operate and cheap ammo wont cut it. stick with gas at first. easier to modify and cheaper to feed. My Adams Arms piston set up was wonderful...when fed xm193, it absolutely hated white box ammo and dont even think of steel case...just no power to push the piston.
I personally dont like kits. I like to pick what i want with out a company gathering parts for me. I may not want the barrel or another part in the kit...and i paid say 350 for the kit...now i gotta sell the part i dont want and spend the money to get the one i do want and or need. I like sitting down and logging time in magazines, internet dealers, local shops, and so on and so forth coming up with a grocery list of what i want. Then i go looking for the company/wholesaler who is having a sale...buy the piece of the week, and then move to the next. its the closest an adult can come to childhood...like a kid in the 80's sitting down and studying the montgomery wards christmas toy catalog...except our toys cost more. Think of an AR as your Man doll. you can dress it up get it naked and change its outfits often to suit the situation...if youre so inclined...you can sleep with it..thats on you...im not goin there...
If you need help building or have more questions there are lots of us on here, including "shooter" who can point you in the right direction or lend a hand.
-Ljungman
Ps...some pics of my big build...

Very nice setup!! I have a currently have a patrol rifle configuration but want something more precise. I have been working on configuring my perfect uppers and have decided that the .223 Wylde in 18" will be a perfect fit for me. I'm planning on using my current lower since I am ruined with the Geissele that I have. I will need to save up to build the lower the way I want.

 

[Hop]

"Long range" is subjective as well. What do you consider long range? I shot rifleman three times using a 14.5" Colt barrel at a full distance 100-400 yard Appleseed. It wasn't grouping quite as tight as my 20" Colt out @ 400 but was pretty close.

 

[burt gummer]

I talked to some guys at profire and was recomended psa, also gonna check out bradis i plan on atleast a grand on this rifle,

 

[WyldeShot]

I talked to some guys at profire and was recomended psa, also gonna check out bradis i plan on atleast a grand on this rifle,

If you're not in a hurry keep an eye on PSA website or sign up for the emails. They often run really good sales on AR parts, complete upper and lowers and complete ARs. They also sell blemishes and according to the reviews the blems are great too. I recently missed a sale on uppers but I will catch them next time.

 

[Leo]

I have assembled an AR with the piece at a time method. I usually buy quality rifles already assembled, upgrade the factory trigger and shoot it. I buy according to my use. When I was at the top of my game, I bought custom builds from Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering and rebarreled at least one rifle per season with another Krieger barrel from Frank. Never had any regrets

Even for generic, run of the mill rifles, I do not see a lot of savings by piece by piece assembling them if you are using quality components. Notice I simply said quality, I am not talking about bling, like NI coated BCG's and handguards that look like something off of a robots arm.

If you have fun and save $50, that is great, I wish everyone that wants to do it good luck, and have even helped a few people assemble their own rifles. However I do not believe a thing when a guy talks about "building" a $1700 rifle for $350. Either he has a lot more money in it than he admits to, has stolen all the parts from someone else, or the rifle is NOT a $1700 rifle. A bare top grade barrel costs $400-$500. and a quality trigger costs $200-$300. No rifle could be worth more than a plain factory rifle without those two components.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

It cost me roughly $700 to build my AR. Find a new quality mil-spec AR for $700. Built exactly the way you want it.

 

[burt gummer]

I plan on building it how i id like it, and i know "mill spec" isnt indestructible just something that can reach 4/500 yards and get some mud on and still work, so just gonna ask from the experts and make a list and see how it turns out, thanks to the guys at profire, have a general idea on my gun, @gredden i will watch psa for deals seems like alot of kits out of stock hope not long

 

[burt gummer]

Ok update i havent started my rifle but already know i will be addicted,

 

[Sgt Stoner]

Excellent advice HavokCycle! This is exactly the advice I would give!

buy your first and get intimate. i like understanding how things function, because only at that point can i build a replica and be confident in it. buy one, take it down to its guts, and rebuild it. when you start to understand it, then you can build the very thing your heart wants.

 

[teddy12b]

IMHO if you don't know who/what/how and never had any experience with an AR is to BUY your first. And when you buy your first, don't go cheap.
From my observations, those that don't know Jack, and "build" their first, usually buy low end parts because they don't know any better. Then this get's
changed for that with no knowledge of why and the problems start.


Do a LOT of reading on all the AR forums you can, educate yourself what is out there in the market, what brands to trust and which ones to stay away from. The easiest thing to do is go to your local Walmart and buy a Colt 6920. If you end up not liking thr AR15 you'll have no trouble re-selling a Colt. Build one from various parts and then have/need/want to sell it, you'll take a good loss to move it.

This is the best advice you've gotten so far. Right now you can buy a Colt 6920 for under $1K. That's the benchmark of quality throughout the AR-15 world. There's better and worse, but ultimately the 6920 is going to hold it's resale value better than anythign else out there. If you build a rifle yourself with silimar matching specs to the Colt you're going to save money without a doubt, but if you ever have to sell it you're going to get drastically less of your money back than you would a colt. I'm not a colt fanboy, but it's just a reality of the AR world.

After you've bought your Colt, then buy a rifle build kit from PSA. PSA makes kits with bare bones features for dirt cheap, around the $650 ish ccomplete gun price range. They also make kits that are going to be comparable to a Colt 6920 in the $800 complete range. Building your rifle is more to satisfy being an AR-15 junkie than it is anything else. You're going to save money, but the real benefit of building is being able to know your rifle inside and out and the pride that comes along with building something yourself.

Some people like to show off a piece of furniture that they bought, some people like to show off a piece of furniture they built. It's the same with AR-15's.

 

[jonny4523]

IMHO if you don't know who/what/how and never had any experience with an AR is to BUY your first. And when you buy your first, don't go cheap.
From my observations, those that don't know Jack, and "build" their first, usually buy low end parts because they don't know any better. Then this get's
changed for that with no knowledge of why and the problems start.


Do a LOT of reading on all the AR forums you can, educate yourself what is out there in the market, what brands to trust and which ones to stay away from. The easiest thing to do is go to your local Walmart and buy a Colt 6920. If you end up not liking thr AR15 you'll have no trouble re-selling a Colt. Build one from various parts and then have/need/want to sell it, you'll take a good loss to move it.

This is the best advice you've gotten so far. Right now you can buy a Colt 6920 for under $1K. That's the benchmark of quality throughout the AR-15 world. There's better and worse, but ultimately the 6920 is going to hold it's resale value better than anythign else out there. If you build a rifle yourself with silimar matching specs to the Colt you're going to save money without a doubt, but if you ever have to sell it you're going to get drastically less of your money back than you would a colt. I'm not a colt fanboy, but it's just a reality of the AR world.

After you've bought your Colt, then buy a rifle build kit from PSA. PSA makes kits with bare bones features for dirt cheap, around the $650 ish ccomplete gun price range. They also make kits that are going to be comparable to a Colt 6920 in the $800 complete range. Building your rifle is more to satisfy being an AR-15 junkie than it is anything else. You're going to save money, but the real benefit of building is being able to know your rifle inside and out and the pride that comes along with building something yourself.

Some people like to show off a piece of furniture that they bought, some people like to show off a piece of furniture they built. It's the same with AR-15's.

I'm with these guys. Once you're hooked, they'll be at least a second rifle, no doubt about it (point being that they'll be time later to do your own build). But the 6920 is a great rifle that I'm still shocked to see Wal-Mart carry and for such a deal.

I would say to be careful with advice you get from the LGS. I don't know the Profire guy you speak of (and maybe he's the go to guy for ARs), but I have been in other shops before where an employee's advice to customers... wasn't what I would have given. Especially the 'cheaper brand x is just as good as more expensive brand y'. You get what you pay for. Don't go cheap. There is a difference in quality between manufacturers.

As said earlier, with a quality build, you'll have $1k invested easily after the barrel, trigger, and rail (let's not forget optics either). So I'd recommend going with the Colt first, shoot the living crap out of it, shoot a carbine match, shoot a 3 gun match at one of the awesome INMG series matches. Learn what you like and what you don't like about it. Then, and only then, will you start to learn what you want in a build.

 

[dhamby]

I was in your same shoes, wasn't sure if I wanted to build or buy. I personally chose to build the entire rifle including the upper. I have shot a few AR's and have a feel for what I want but am certainly no expert. The way I looked at it is that I like to know how things work and wanted the satisfaction of building it myself. Also the money factor played into it. I can build what I think I want for considerably less than I could buy a rifle as close to what I wanted as possible. Now after buying a complete rifle that cost me more than if I built it I am still going to change parts out to make it the way I want. If I build then I have less money upfront, can build it at the rate I can afford, and if I end up changing out some parts I am still going to be into the rifle for less money than a complete rifle that I upgraded to my liking.

If you are somewhat mechanically inclined then you should have no problems building an AR. If you have questions there are forums, your LGS, youtube, and many other sources to help along the way.

 

[teddy12b]

Thought of a couple more logs to put on the fire. If you build/assemble it yourself you could spread out the cost of the rifle. For example, one month you buy a stripped lower ($80). The next month you buy a lower build kit ($100). The next month you buy a complete upper ($450). The next month you buy the optic and so on, you get the idea. I have helped several guys through the AR-15 purchasing process this way by sending them an email on the days something is on sale somewhere that they'd need for a rifle.

On the other hand, if you take a 6920 for example, most of the parts people are going to change on it are fairly cosmetic. For example if/when you change the stock, pistol grip, and forend you're actually not throwing that much money away. Most pistol grips on rifles are basically free or will cost $2 - $3 if you were to buy it yourself to build one, the foreend and stock are less than $20 each depending on what kind of factory rifle you bought.

About the worse thing you can do is buy a factory rile and then start upgrading (like I did with my 6920). Now it's got a magpul stock ($100), a magpul miad grip($35), a DD Omega forend ($200), a yankee folding front sight gas block ($90), JP trigger springs($10), and a strikefire on top ($150). Basically I bought a 6920 when I really wanted a 6940. I love my wife and I thank God that she doesn't really investigate what I've spent on rifles and accessories over the years.


By the way, take a look at this:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...tm_campaign=Constant+Contact&utm_medium=email

Hammer forged barrel, and a great bolt carrier group and all for $600. That's an amazing deal and they're an INGO supporter.

 

[BluesTraveler]

Never did see anybody answer the question about what brands they recommend. I am trying to choose myself on which one to buy for my first ar.

 

[teddy12b]

Never did see anybody answer the question about what brands they recommend. I am trying to choose myself on which one to buy for my first ar.

You didn't notice the "Colt" or PSA (palmetto state armory) mentioned a few times throughout the thread?

 

[WyldeShot]

Never did see anybody answer the question about what brands they recommend. I am trying to choose myself on which one to buy for my first ar.

PSA is a good choice for either. I bought a PSA AR 2 years ago. I am building my next one. PSA currently has blem uppers on sale for $49.99. They also have several complete uppers on sale too.

 

[jonny4523]

Never did see anybody answer the question about what brands they recommend. I am trying to choose myself on which one to buy for my first ar.

I think this depends on your intended use. If you're simply buying it for a plinker, then I'd say save the money and buy PSA, Del-ton, DPMS, Model 1 (if you're really cheap), etc.

If you're planning on really working it: competition (3gun) or training, then get a quality rifle that is proven to take a beating: Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM, JP, Noveske, LaRue, Stag, etc. It's probably not a good feeling to travel and spend a few hundred dollars on a training class somewhere just to have your bolt break in front of everyone.

I, for one, like the confidence that if need be, I can rely on my rifle doing what ever it needs to do no matter what it's been through.

Then also, buy optics according. If you get a plinker rifle, you'll be fine with a quality budget optic (not cheap) (Primary Arms would be a good budget optic). But if you get a premium rifle, don't try to save money on an optic like a Wal-Mart red dot on a NCStar mount. You'll end up spending more $$ in the end by busting a few of the cheapies and then spending the money on a quality optic in the end anyway.

Take a look at the torture test that Daniel Defense / Larry Vickers did with one of the DD rifles. They have an Aimpoint Micro mounted on that test rifle, so it went through everything the rifle went through. So even through all that, the rifle did its part by firing accurately. The quality optic combo (Aimpoint micro / DD micro mount combo) did its part by holding zero through all of that.


That's my

 

[xfrostybeersx]

I perfer building your own. Then you can "know" your rifle inside and out, unlike the noobs out there that know nothing about what they have......."uhhh, it's a gun"

 

[abedooley]

I am in the same predicament. I posted pretty much the same question yesterday. There are just soooo many choices and soooo many abbreviations that are next to impossible to decipher. I had my mind set on a bone stock Bushmaster until I asked that question. No 2 answers were the same. I have decided to build mine the way I think I want it. I have about 3 weeks before I plan on buying my AR parts so I have been scouring the forums to get an idea on what I want my AR to do. Does anyone know where I can find a complete parts list of a bone stock AR15? There is nothing more frustrating than thinking you have everything and then go to put it all together to find you are missing just 1 piece of the puzzle. Makes me angrier than a wet duck.