Affordable home wind generators!?!

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  • melensdad

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 94.7%
    18   1   0
    Apr 2, 2008
    24,394
    77
    Far West Suburban Lowellabama
    If this lives up to the hype, this has huge potential for helping to reduce our individual dependance upon the power grid. This is literally a breakthrough in wind energy. I've been pricing small wind generators for the past 2 or 3 years, all of them I've priced are far LESS efficient and far MORE costly (typically $12 to $15 thousand dollars). This unit is $4500 for the rotor and the controller. 2 rotors can be combined and run through 1 controller box, that is even more economical!

    I'm going to be watching closely, but if this thing is remotely close to its potential then I may well put up 2 of them. I've already switched my home to CFL lighting to increase efficiency but there is little I can do to increase the efficiency of things like my well pump, refrigerators, microwave, ovens, etc. This could offset enough of the power draw from daily use to pay back its cost in only 2 or 3 years!!! That is astounding.

    Here is an article from C|Net:
    Small wind turbine works at low wind speeds
    by Martin LaMonica
    Small wind turbine works at low wind speeds | Green Tech - CNET News

    Homeowners this fall will be able to buy a wind turbine at hardware stores that tackles the small wind industry's bete noire: slow wind.
    WindTronics, based in Muskegon, Mich., has developed a wind turbine sized for individual homes that it says can operate at speeds as low as 2 miles an hour.

    It will be sold for $4,500 as the Honeywell Wind Turbine and distributed through Ace Hardware stores in the U.S. starting in October. WindTronics developed the turbine and licensed the technology to buildings systems giant Honeywell.

    The fan-like turbine will generate 2,000 kilowatt-hours in a year for a home with a very good--called Class 4--wind resource, according to the company. That's between 15 and 20 percent of the annual electricity consumption for the average U.S. home.

    HonneywellTurbine_on_Sky.JPG
    Turning a turbine inside out: rather than having power generation occur at a gear box in the shaft, WindTronic's turbine has magnets at the edges of the fan to generate a current.
    (Credit: WindTronics)​

    The turbine is rated at 2 kilowatts, but WindTronics executives say that most turbines' rated capacities--the amount of power they can produce at a given moment--are misleading.

    "We say if a turbine only works between 8 and 25 miles per hour, you have a very limited range of operation," said Brian Levine, the vice president of business development at WindTronics, a division of EarthTronics. "Our device is rated to address a wider range at the low and high end."

    The 95-pound turbine, which is 6 feet in diameter, can be mounted on rooftops, attached to chimneys, or put on a pole. The company hopes to sell the turbines through Ace Hardware stores or through contractors--who are needed for the installation--to homeowners or businesses.

    Spinning magnets
    With people seeking out alternative forms of power generation, there's been a surge in interest--and sales--in small wind turbines in the past year. But it's still not clear that these small wind turbines are cost-effective enough to be used beyond a niche of green-minded buyers.
    Two studies--one in Massachusetts and one in the U.K.--discovered that many small wind turbines far underperformed manufacturers' specifications.

    The tests found that people often chose locations that didn't have sufficient wind or obstructions that blocked wind. In most cases, turbine makers rate products assuming a very good wind resource--anywhere from 12 to 25 miles per hour.

    By using a novel design, WindTronics' turbine can generate electricity between 2 miles per hour and 45 miles per hour, the company says.
    Photos: Small wind turbines take shape

    Typically, turbines convert the mechanical energy of spinning blades to electricity with a gearbox and generator in the turbine's nacelle, the enclosure where the rotor's shaft is mounted.

    WindTronic's turbine has small magnets at the tips of its fan blades. When they spin from the wind, equipment in the fan's housing captures the current produced.

    The installation kit also comes with an inverter to convert the direct current to household alternating current and a "smart box," which regulates the flow of electricity and monitors wind speed. At 45 miles per hour, the unit turns itself sideways to avoid damage.

    Levine, who said the turbine was originally developed for developing countries, said WindTronics expects it can produce 50,000 units in its first year. A number of utilities, including Duke Energy, are testing the turbine, he added.

    He said that mounting the turbine on a house should not cause vibration because the unit is lighter than most turbines. The sound is rated at between 35 and 45 decibels, which is quieter than normal conversation, Levine said.

    Right problem
    There is a growing number of companies designing turbines to operate in less-than-ideal wind conditions. A wind map from the Department of Energy shows that most of the fair and good wind--class 3 and class 4--is in the plains states and on the coasts of the continental U.S.
    One technique to squeeze more power from available wind is to concentrate the wind to increase the speed of the air going past rotor blades. OptiWind, FloDesign Wind Turbine, and Green Energy Tech are among the companies exploring that approach in small or mid-size turbines.

    Other turbine manufacturers, like WindTronics, use permanent magnets in a direct drive design rather than gearboxes to generate electricity.

    WindTronics has only built prototype systems, which it first showed at a hardware show last month. But if its turbines can operate in low wind with little vibration and sound, the company could make small wind turbines economically attractive to a much larger audience.​
     

    BloodEclipse

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 3, 2008
    10,620
    38
    In the trenches for liberty!
    What are you paying a month for Electricity?
    2 units equal $9000
    At 100% of power provided by wind you have $3000 a year divided by 12 months equals $250. I pay less than that for power.
    At 30% to 40% of your use it will take much longer to be cost effective. Am I missing something?
    What is their lifespan? Is there maintenance costs?
     

    Hammer

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jan 24, 2009
    1,523
    38
    On the lake
    The fan-like turbine will generate 2,000 kilowatt-hours in a year for a home with a very good--called Class 4--wind resource,

    The average consumption rate is 1,300 KWH around here. That is taking into consideration some meters are just camps and do not use any power for months. So actual usage is alot higher.

    Just for instance last month I used 1,400KWH of electricity which is about $125 a month. In the winter I use a bit more, maybe 3,000 KWH per month. So using this turbine it will provide me 1 month of electricity, saving me and estimated $200 a month? Not worth it IMO.

    Indiana is not the right place for wind turbines or you would see them everywhere, with the exception of some of the north plain areas. Solar is what this area needs, but the technology is not quite there yet to be a viable option..
     

    gdh

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Feb 20, 2009
    115
    16
    Crown Point
    At only six feet in diameter and weighting 95 pounds, sounds like it would be good in a city neighborhood. Smaller than that 10 foot satellite dish that is just sitting useless in my back yard.
     

    052.5GT

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 21, 2009
    131
    16
    Columbus
    For me I would consider this a little harder than most of you seem to be.

    I do not see just getting into a wind turbine to cut my bills. I would do it to get off of depending on someone else. If you have a battery bank and a couple of these you could do well for yourself. Also, if any of you have read any of the BackWoods Home magazine you would remember that a home wind turbine is only part of the solution. It is best to have multiple systems in place, wind, water, solar, whatever is good in your area but do not try to provide all your power off of one small wind turbine.

    The return on investment for me would not be how fast it could pay itself off, I own a car wich will never pay itself off. I would just want to be independant, and when the powergrid is down and I still have lights and power it will be worth the investment.

    Just my thoughts, please consider a different position as to just paying for itself.
     

    melensdad

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 94.7%
    18   1   0
    Apr 2, 2008
    24,394
    77
    Far West Suburban Lowellabama
    For me I would consider this a little harder than most of you seem to be.

    I do not see just getting into a wind turbine to cut my bills. I would do it to get off of depending on someone else. If you have a battery bank and a couple of these you could do well for yourself. Also, if any of you have read any of the BackWoods Home magazine you would remember that a home wind turbine is only part of the solution. It is best to have multiple systems in place, wind, water, solar, whatever is good in your area but do not try to provide all your power off of one small wind turbine.

    The return on investment for me would not be how fast it could pay itself off, I own a car wich will never pay itself off. I would just want to be independant, and when the powergrid is down and I still have lights and power it will be worth the investment.

    Just my thoughts, please consider a different position as to just paying for itself.
    I'm in agreement with you on many points here!

    Some of the reason for something like this (I am not saying THIS unit is the viable unit) is to be less dependent upon systems outside of your control. Some of it is to have power when the SHTF (even if just local power failures). Some of it may come down to reasonable payback and even in increasing the value of your home when you go to sell it.

    I see a few problems with this unit. First, the power rating is based on wind speeds we don't get at roof top elevations in most of Indiana so the generator would have to sit on a tower about 50' off the ground to generate close to the rating provided, but that is not insurmountable.

    Each person would have a different set of variables to consider, but many of us have generators for back up power, and those generators just sit idle for most of the 365 days each year yet I never hear people talk about the "payback" of the investment in the generator. Rather I hear people talk about the 'value' of them in SHTF scenarios. This is something that could provide SOME power every day of the year and in any sort of SHTF scenario it would provide some power without having to worry about filling up the gas tank every 6 to 8 hours with fuel that you have to drive to a gas station to buy.

    But with a roughly $4500-$5000 investment you might save $40 a month on your bill. Maybe $480 per year, so a 10 year payback. AT TODAY'S COSTS. But if we see the "Cap & Trade" bill pass, which will tax COAL (which supplies +/-95% of Indiana's electricity) then you may see a rush to buy things like this (as well as solar panels).
     

    Ness2k

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 26, 2008
    265
    16
    China ^_^
    I wonder how hard it would be to rig up a traditional stationary bike to this. That way I could get an hour of decent cardio on the days I don't run and through a good reduction gear I could spin the hell outta this little thing.
     

    edsinger

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Apr 14, 2009
    2,541
    38
    NE Indiana
    The costs of the 'tie' in to the grid for selling excess?.......what about your automatic switch?

    not worth it until wind gets $0.04 a kW/Hr or LESS
     

    melensdad

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 94.7%
    18   1   0
    Apr 2, 2008
    24,394
    77
    Far West Suburban Lowellabama
    The costs of the 'tie' in to the grid for selling excess?.......what about your automatic switch?

    not worth it until wind gets $0.04 a kW/Hr or LESS
    Why would you even bother to try to sell back any excess given the output of these little units? It will generate about enough electricity to satisfy 15% of your use in optimal conditions, that means that you are still buying electricity when this thing is running full speed, you are simply buying less. Unless you have a SUPER-EFFICIENT home, then there is no need to do 'net metering' to sell excess by running it back through the grid.

    As for the concept of "worth" that is debatable. It would function as some back up power in SHTF when others don't have power. It reduces your dependency upon the grid at all times. It qualifies for some tax credits. And if the rates go up under Cap & Trade, which they are bound to do, then it will pay back the investment much sooner.

    I don't know where you are buying electricity for 0.04 kW/hr, but my utility charges double that and is asking for an increase. Your statement assumes NO rate increases ever. Probably not a good bet.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating THIS rooftop unit. It might be good. Time and testing will tell. I just think that things like this, and decreasing our reliance on others, is a good thing.
     

    IndyBeerman

    Was a real life Beerman.....
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jun 2, 2008
    7,700
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    Plainfield
    I wonder how hard it would be to rig up a traditional stationary bike to this. That way I could get an hour of decent cardio on the days I don't run and through a good reduction gear I could spin the hell outta this little thing.

    You just got the image of a HUGE human hampster wheel going through my head right now!

    _human_hamster_wheel_1.jpg



    Now on the Wind turbine, I think in order for them to become even remotely popular they are have to become WAY more efficient in producing power in larger volume and at a lower price.


    I think the first manufacturer that can do this hits the billion dollar jackpot.

    I'd love to see something like a combo personal solar/wind setup with a battery storage unit for low wind/sun days with a power to grid buyback feature thrown in to sell back when your batteries are fully charged.

    But any power generating solution boils down to price. It has to be affordable in order to gain any momentum at all.
     

    tackleberry65

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Sep 20, 2008
    86
    8
    speedway
    Why would you even bother to try to sell back any excess given the output of these little units? It will generate about enough electricity to satisfy 15% of your use in optimal conditions, that means that you are still buying electricity when this thing is running full speed, you are simply buying less. Unless you have a SUPER-EFFICIENT home, then there is no need to do 'net metering' to sell excess by running it back through the grid.

    As for the concept of "worth" that is debatable. It would function as some back up power in SHTF when others don't have power. It reduces your dependency upon the grid at all times. It qualifies for some tax credits. And if the rates go up under Cap & Trade, which they are bound to do, then it will pay back the investment much sooner.

    I don't know where you are buying electricity for 0.04 kW/hr, but my utility charges double that and is asking for an increase. Your statement assumes NO rate increases ever. Probably not a good bet.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating THIS rooftop unit. It might be good. Time and testing will tell. I just think that things like this, and decreasing our reliance on others, is a good thing.

    I agree with you on many points. Your statement about net-metering might be a little off, though. Net metering could be an energy piggybank for end users.

    On a really windy 55 degree day in March, a windmill would kick out its max power but your home probably wouldn't be using very much especially if no one is home and you have a programmable thermostat. Ditto for a super sunny day. Wouldn't it be great to feed that power back and use the credits when you need them?

    I think what you are saying is that the energy you would put in the bank isn't cost-effective today, and I agree with you. The gap is still pretty wide but is getting narrower all the time. This technology isn't financially viable right now, but the day when it will be is approaching, especially as production costs for traditional energy sources continue to rise.
     

    jeremy

    Grandmaster
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    7   0   0
    Feb 18, 2008
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    Fiddler's Green
    To be effective to throw enough power to sell back to the grid you would need to have your generator a couple hundred feet up. Indiana is in the marginal area for truly productive wind power and only really the NW corner of the state is even decent at that.

    If you are looking to produce to sell back then you should be looking at Solar for here in Indiana.
     
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