About came unglued

[Slawburger]

Just observing, carry on.

 

[ATM]

It's certainly good to see that you are so superior to those who have used and trained others in the use of guns for centuries that you just know that the four rules are archaic.

Just #1, you know how strongly I support the safe gun handling rules which were added later.

You'll be the first person to come to mind if I ever see someone handling a gun unsafely, immediately followed by me putting as much distance as possible between myself (along with anyone accompanying me) and the unsafe person as possible.

This would be quite natural as I am known to be rather unrelenting in my admonishments to handle all guns safely.

 

[oldpink]

Just #1, you know how strongly I support the safe gun handling rules which were added later.



This would be quite natural as I am known to be rather unrelenting in my admonishments to handle all guns safely.

It's currently nighttime here in Indiana.
Let the debates begin.

 

[patience0830]

Hopefully, someone will post it.

Another epic thread going on today;

RimfireCentral.com Forums

Thread seems to be gone.

 

[ATM]

It's currently nighttime here in Indiana.
Let the debates begin.

If you can't offer any rational support for keeping a failed non-rule around, it's not really a debate at all. I've already discarded it as have many others.

Why do some still cling to it? I truly do not know.

 

[nipprdog]

and as implied by another response its just an inanimate object no more harmful than a baseball bat.

 

[seagullplayer]

The OP did the right thing. When someone does something this stupid they need called out.

Maybe the guy never had a dad to teach him right and wrong, learned all his gun handling on you tube.

 

[oldpink]

If you can't offer any rational support for keeping a failed non-rule around, it's not really a debate at all. I've already discarded it as have many others.

Why do some still cling to it? I truly do not know.

Pity the poor person who ever falls victim to that mentality.

 

[churchmouse]

The alleged useless rule helps me stay on point. It seriously does.
Word it how you will. I know ATM is a very knowledgeable individual. I have asked others about him and get seriously positive reply's.
That he follows his own path is of course his choice and his opinions are his own.
That I do not fully agree is my choice but in the end...................Just handle the damn things like they are loaded and a lot of this Bravo Sierra will stop.

 

[oldpink]

The alleged useless rule helps me stay on point. It seriously does.
Word it how you will. I know ATM is a very knowledgeable individual. I have asked others about him and get seriously positive reply's.
That he follows his own path is of course his choice and his opinions are his own.
That I do not fully agree is my choice but in the end...................Just handle the damn things like they are loaded and a lot of this Bravo Sierra will stop.

The most concise bottom line there.
If all those who so much as look at a gun behaved that way, ND would basically become a thing of the past.

 

[BugI02]

Oh, now it's a law? That's hilarious!

I won't bother trying to satisfy or even compete with the common appeal to authority fallacy, but I will offer this quote which probably best sums up the pointlessness of your suggestion on this particular matter:

"Mistrust arguments from authority.'...Too many such arguments have proved too painfully wrong. Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else."

~Carl Sagan

Thanks for playing.

You are, in a very limited respect, correct. I will plead engineer. I am much more used to talking about laws, such as 'The Second Law of Thermodynamics' or 'Moore's Law', while referring to things that are found to be true by repetition and difficult ( impossible? ) to contravene. These things are 'laws' with no lawgiver, unless you subscribe to a certain set of beliefs as I do. Perhaps they, too should be called 'rules'

So, within the narrow confines of grammatical correctness, du hast recht. But perhaps col. Coopers 'rules' should be elevated to laws. I am not aware of anyone becoming the victim of an ND or AD (more terminology of convenience, eh) or victimizing another while obeying all four of Jeff Cooper's 'suggestions' but I'm aware of plenty of people shot with 'unloaded' firearms.

For those who feel beyond the 'old and busted' four rules, we could support the production of 'expert firearms handler' badges to indicate you no longer feel the need to be bound by certain rules. Openly displaying such a device would immediately tell us all we need to know about being anywhere near you, especially at a range. I expect they would work a lot like concealed carry badges, in that you order them from the internet and award them to yourself

Carry on

 

[BugI02]

“Those at too great a distance may, I am well aware, mistake ignorance for perspective.”
― Carl Sagan, Dragons of Eden

 

[Birds Away]

This argument is nothing but semantics.

 

[JettaKnight]

It's certainly good to see that you are so superior to those who have used and trained others in the use of guns for centuries that you just know that the four rules are archaic.
You'll be the first person to come to mind if I ever see someone handling a gun unsafely, immediately followed by me putting as much distance as possible between myself (along with anyone accompanying me) and the unsafe person as possible.

The "four rules" have been around for centuries?

For those who feel beyond the 'old and busted' four rules, we could support the production of 'expert firearms handler' badges to indicate you no longer feel the need to be bound by certain rules. Openly displaying such a device would immediately tell us all we need to know about being anywhere near you, especially at a range. I expect they would work a lot like concealed carry badges, in that you order them from the internet and award them to yourself

If you two are implying that ATM (and myself), "feel beyond the 'old and busted' four rules", then you're making a strawman argument by stating that since we are against Rule #1 then we must be against the complete Four Rules.

My assertion is that Rule #1 is a logical fallacy that, when proven wrong, allows in the mind of the coonfingerer unsafe handling. Loaded, unloaded, doesn't matter - follow safe handling procedures always. I don't need a logical fallacy as a crutch, and lightning rod, to focus on instead of the three rules that actually matter.



It seems we all love to go round 'n round about Rule #1, but I think the real dividing live is whether once unloaded (and checked and inspected), is it OK to handle a firearm without regard to the remaining rules?


(Hint: I say no.)

 

[rhino]

I have an idea:

How about the people who think Rule #1 is outdated/useless/a fallacy just put their finger on the screen over it so they only see rules 2-4, and the people who love Rule #1 like their own child use a Sharpie to highlight it on their screen when they see it.

Problem solved!

 

[ruger1800]

Daughter pick a gun off the rack at LGS, guess what. Fully loaded with a round in the chamber.

 

[JettaKnight]

Daughter pick a gun off the rack at LGS, guess what. Fully loaded with a round in the chamber.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have an idea:

How about the people who think Rule #1 is outdated/useless/a fallacy just put their finger on the screen over it so they only see rules 2-4, and the people who love Rule #1 like their own child use a Sharpie to highlight it on their screen when they see it.

Problem solved!

Look, I don't know what kind of Windex selling scheme you've got going on here, but we're not smudging/painting our monitors just so you can pocket your share of the take from Big Ammonia.

 

[pudly]

This argument is nothing but semantics.

Rule of argumentation: The smaller the difference in positions, the more emphatically people will argue the point.

 

[rhino]

Daughter pick a gun off the rack at LGS, guess what. Fully loaded with a round in the chamber.

Oy!

That makes me suspicious that someone loaded that gun on purpose, perhaps hoping for an unintentional discharge.

Look, I don't know what kind of Windex selling scheme you've got going on here, but we're not smudging/painting our monitors just so you can pocket your share of the take from Big Ammonia.

HE SEES THROUGH ME!