A hard question for LEOs

[rambone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcLNoxiPBk

 

[RobbyMaQ]

But police will enforce them. They will arrest people and confiscate firearms and hi-cap magazines and whatever someone tells them to do.

While you propose evidence that in fact at least one did. There are clearly others who do not. This is a very grey area (even where a black and white line is drawn). And was the reason for my post.

 

[phylodog]

But police will enforce them. They will arrest people and confiscate firearms and hi-cap magazines since thats what they are paid to do.

Fixed it for you.

Apparently you've chosen to completely ignore my first post in this thread I guess. What a shock. It doesn't fit your agenda.

If you're in favor of granting police officers the authority to determine law, enforce law, determine guilt and administer punishment please feel free to lobby your politicians. Once all of the politicians, judges, prosecutors, lawyers, probation officers, parole officers and prison guards have been laid off I'll be in for a big fat pay raise for doing all of their jobs. Then I'll listen to your nonsense. Until then you can stop being lazy and expecting someone else to change the laws to your liking or ignore them.

In case you weren't aware the police don't work for you. They work for society as a whole. Society elects people into positions of power, we call them politicians. Politicians write laws. Laws are enforced by people called police officers (that's their job). Lawyers and judges determine the legality of the laws politicians write. If they're determined to be unlawful they get changed. If they are determined to be lawful they don't. If they're lawful but society doesn't like them they can vote the politicians out of office who wrote them.

That's how the system works in a nutshell. If you think your plan is better all you have to do is convince about 155,000,000 people and you can be the new king.

 

[phylodog]

The Supreme Court has ruled that the President ordering American citizens into military concentration camps was constitutional (1944). They ruled that forcible human sterilization of the "unfit" was constitutional (1927). The court ruled that blacks had no standing to sue in court because they were property (1857). They ruled that private property could be seized via eminent domain and handed off to private developers with more political clout (2005). The court ruled that people speaking out against the WW1 draft had no freedom of speech and could be put in prison camps (1919).

ALL "CONSTITUTIONAL". And that's just a few off the top of my head.

Tyranny cannot be restrained if we posture one single branch of government as the final arbiter and decider of what is constitutional. "The Supreme Court said it was OK" is not good enough. Its a cop out. ALL branches must use their brains and obey their oaths. I'm not asking anyone to make up their own laws, I am asking people to stand down. Refuse to enforce tyrannical laws and orders. Use your conscience. Some day we all are going to have to answer for our individual actions, and SCOTUS & the legislature won't be there to point fingers at.

I suspect that if I'm ever called to answer for my individual actions I suspect I'll be just fine. I'm confident that I won't be answering to someone who holds your beliefs.

 

[T755]

I've watched this site for a while now. It never ceases to amaze me the cop bashing that goes on by people that have no concept of our job. If you have a issue with a law, lobby for change. If you have a issue with police policy apply, rise through the ranks and become admin and try to change policy. Let me know how that works out for you with the Mayor.

 

[LPMan59]

what's your other screenname?

 

[griffin]

Fixed it for you.

You just reinforced my point.

 

[phylodog]

You just reinforced my point.

Which is incredibly flawed but you seem content with it so I'll let you enjoy it. Have fun.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

You just reinforced my point.

And you, his.

 

[CathyInBlue]

I've watched this site for a while now. It never ceases to amaze me the cop bashing that goes on by people that have no concept of our job. If you have a issue with a law, lobby for change. If you have a issue with police policy apply, rise through the ranks and become admin and try to change policy. Let me know how that works out for you with the Mayor.

The problem is not changing the law in order to change the behaviour of LEOs. The problem is changing the behaviour of LEOs to coincide with how we've already changed the law. Changing the law doesn't mean anything when the LEOs feel free to violate it with impunity.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Changing the law doesn't mean anything when [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] a very small minority of LEOs feel free to violate it with impunity.

Another generalization. Shocker.

 

[AJBB87]

The problem is not changing the law in order to change the behaviour of LEOs. The problem is changing the behaviour of LEOs to coincide with how we've already changed the law. Changing the law doesn't mean anything when the LEOs feel free to violate it with impunity.

There are cops out there that make mistakes. That's why they are only cops, and not judge, jury and so forth...

The people who are responsible for the direction of this country are the people who voted for our elected officials.

Instead of complaining about LEO's enforcing laws we don't like, we need to spend more time figuring out how to either prevent or change these laws.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Instead of complaining about LEO's enforcing laws we don't like, we need to spend more time figuring out how to either prevent or change these laws.

And what would it take to get LEOs to enforce laws as they actually are and not as the LEOs were trained years ago and as they want them to still be? Clearly changing the laws matters not at all if no one enforcing them is even going to bother to notice.

 

[AJBB87]

And what would it take to get LEOs to enforce laws as they actually are and not as the LEOs were trained years ago and as they want them to still be? Clearly changing the laws matters not at all if no one enforcing them is even going to bother to notice.

Ma'am, I can't address your question because you are talking about very specific instances.

I'm all for retraining and I think LEO's should be up to date on law.

BUT....

As I said above, LEO's are people and they make mistakes. That is why we also have courtrooms to, hopefully, sort out the peole who actually brake the law from those who don't.

*Is this what you're talking about or am I missing your point?

 

[lucky4034]

I've watched this site for a while now. It never ceases to amaze me the cop bashing that goes on by people that have no concept of our job. If you have a issue with a law, lobby for change. If you have a issue with police policy apply, rise through the ranks and become admin and try to change policy. Let me know how that works out for you with the Mayor.

Well... so as long as the Mayor or the 51% says its ok... I mean... if its good enough for them, its good enough for me!

Wouldn't want our law enforcement to have to think for themselves or hold any accountability. That goes for the military as well right?

 

[VUPDblue]

And what would it take to get LEOs to enforce laws as they actually are and not as the LEOs were trained years ago and as they want them to still be? Clearly changing the laws matters not at all if no one enforcing them is even going to bother to notice.

lol wut?

Last I checked, if I tried to enforce a non-existent law, I would be disciplined and/or fired.

 

[Trigger Time]

OP I think your looking in the wrong place for a solution. The system is never going to fix the system. Not now because the system is too far broken. The checks and balances put in place by our founders have been systematically dismantled intentionally. One only has to look to the current administration and the example of the recent cell phone scandals. Been happening for decades now and under more than just one president.
I have always been an advocate and practiced calling my representation to voice my opinion regarding current laws and bills being reviewed. While I still do this, I have come to the realization that enough other people don't care to do the right thing for our natural rights to be protected. So therefore I pray daily for it all to just collapse soon. And pray that something better comes out of it. The current state of the nation is beyon fixable and that's fact that some will never admit, but its true. It's like the business who's only recourse is to file bankruptcy or bust.
Sure there's jackball cops who are on a power trip and will enforce not only any law but their own interpretation of the law. There's soldiers who will follow orders that are constitutionally unlawful but maybe they justify it by an illegal executive order. Others just won't care and want trigger time and are ****tards.

But the majority of the cops are honest and believe in the constitution. While I can hope that they don't enforce stupid laws, I can't ask them to do it because they are doing an honest job according to the sinking ship WE have allowed to sink.
Do I think the above officers will confiscate our guns? No
Do I think it will matter once we get to that point? No.
When it comes to that point and it will, us and them will have much more to worry about than that.
Is the right to smoke weed even on my "care meter" right now? No
There's lots to wish for but right now my only concern is to make sure I have all I the tools to help me and mine survive when this all colapses.

In short ... I just don't give a true **** Anymore what happens in regards to the laws. It's a sinking ship that people are stuffing mud into the holes.

Edit: I just want to clarify that I haven't lost hope in rule of law at the police officer level. In fact I'm happy with the job being done in my area that keeps
Me and my family and the **** we worked hard to buy safe from piece of **** low life scum bag criminals who would like nothing more than for the cops to disapear so they could creap in and rule or force me to have to remove bodies off my lawn every morning.
I just want to make SURE my post can't be taken as anti Leo because in no way is it. I feel sorry for the men in blue who have to work under these current downward spiraling conditions in our nation. I'm sure when the time comes there will be plenty standing next to the rest of the true patriots.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Seems some of you folks think that LEOs are some monolithic entity, we all agree where the line is drawn and some choose to cross it and some choose not to.

What you fail to recognize is what's Constitutional and what's not isn't exactly a bright line in many instances. Every citizen disagrees with every other citizen on some issue about where the line is drawn. Lawyers disagree. Judges disagree. Supreme Court Justices disagree. Yet somehow, you think every cop recognizes exactly where that line is with every law? And then just decides if he wants to be constitutional or not?

What an amazing oversimplification of an incredibly complex system.

 

[Trigger Time]

Seems some of you folks think that LEOs are some monolithic entity, we all agree where the line is drawn and some choose to cross it and some choose not to.

What you fail to recognize is what's Constitutional and what's not isn't exactly a bright line in many instances. Every citizen disagrees with every other citizen on some issue about where the line is drawn. Lawyers disagree. Judges disagree. Supreme Court Justices disagree. Yet somehow, you think every cop recognizes exactly where that line is with every law? And then just decides if he wants to be constitutional or not?

What an amazing oversimplification of an incredibly complex system.

I can understand and agree with that! How you guys fit in the puppy killing and the longs doughnut raids is beyond me.

 

[charlietwo]

In order to understand the Constitution and interpret it properly within the context it was written, a firm historical education on the matter is an absolute necessity. Just as it is possible to have no education of the Constitution, it is equally likely (particularly within today's schools) to be mal-educated on the Constitution.

I don't have first hand experience as an LEO, but I know the military does not specifically teach the history of the Constitution or the context in which it is interpreted and all enlistees and officers swear an oath to it. I wouldn't know the Constitution as well as I do now without the individual motivation.

I think the reason for the 'cop bashing' stems from the plague of Constitutional mal-education across the board in this country, thanks to Progressives, Marxists, and Anarchists metastasizing in our educational/media systems. The ignorant citizens hate the cops because they don't understand their role as a citizen or what a 'Right' actually is. And ignorant police officers (they exist, just as ignorant soldiers exist) do not understand the contextual facts of the Constitution well enough to know when their lawmakers pass laws that violate the 'Rights' of the citizens they swear to protect.

Biggest problem in my mind is the term "Natural Rights" has been separated from God. The State has become god and many within the State have made themselves demi gods.

Good discussion.