A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Theater

[bigus_D]

Yeah, but a store is not a govt. entity, so the sign does not carry the force of law. Correct?

From the code sited above, a "no trespass" sign DOES carry the force of law in Indiana. The question was (at least my question is), is there some proof to support the consistent claim on this forum that "no guns" signs don't carry the force of law in Indiana (because it is clear from the above code the "no trespass" signs DO carry the force of law).

p.s. I really like the "no 1911s" interpretation above. very slick.

 

[wally05]

I'm actually working in our police department right now and am
on break. I asked one of our officers about it and I was told that the store could trespass you, but it wouldn't be criminal trespass unless you refused to leave. Take that for what it's worth. I don't see anyone getting arrested right away for carrying into a store that doesn't allow carrying.

 

[Six Forty-Two]

A couple of issues are present here that made me think. First, you didn't see the sign yourself, but you were made aware of the policy. Maybe not by an employee, but you were made aware by your own child and decided to ignore it.
Secondly, what message are you sending your child? It's okay son, I don't care what people say. I can do whatever I want because it isn't against the law even if it is against the wishes of the proprietor.

So technically, you didn't break any law, but when you enter a business, you are abiding by the rules of the business. Nobody forced you into that place of business. My favorite gunshop has a sign posted "No Loaded Firearms". I enter abiding by their request. IMHO it is a matter of respect, something that seems to be lacking in so many parts of our society these days.

 

[wally05]

A couple of issues are present here that made me think. First, you didn't see the sign yourself, but you were made aware of the policy. Maybe not by an employee, but you were made aware by your own child and decided to ignore it.
Secondly, what message are you sending your child? It's okay son, I don't care what people say. I can do whatever I want because it isn't against the law even if it is against the wishes of the proprietor.

So technically, you didn't break any law, but when you enter a business, you are abiding by the rules of the business. Nobody forced you into that place of business. My favorite gunshop has a sign posted "No Loaded Firearms". I enter abiding by their request. IMHO it is a matter of respect, something that seems to be lacking in so many parts of our society these days.

First of all, I think we cannot attack his ability as a father based on this. His son said he saw it and he's a little boy. I don't think he said "son, I don't care, just ignore it." They were already in the theater and probably didn't want to bring any attention to it. He just said that they'd talk about it later. If my little boy said that, it would raise my eyebrows and I'd make sure I kept it covered until I left, but I wouldn't be like "you're right son, that means we need to leave now!" He didn't see it and maybe his child was mistaken. Like another poster said, not believing what a little child says about it probably wouldn't mean gross disregard.

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback on the internet, isn't it?

 

[Six Forty-Two]

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback on the internet, isn't it?

Right you are. Hindsight is 20/20.

In this case though, his son is 16. He could obtain a LTCH in less than 2 years.

 

[BloodEclipse]

NO!! It is the law that gives them the right to deny your entry, In MI any way if you do carry in a place that has posted a no ccw sign you will be arrested and charged with a crime.

Not in Indiana. If there is a no trespass sign and you enter it doesn't matter if you are carrying or not, it is trespassing and nothing more.
For states where signs carry weight, the law states what the signs must say and how they must be displayed and how large the sign and text on it must be. Indiana has no such law.

 

[dburkhead]

NO!! It is the law that gives them the right to deny your entry, In MI any way if you do carry in a place that has posted a no ccw sign you will be arrested and charged with a crime.

This is not Michigan. Michigan law does not apply.

 

[EdC]

Secondly, what message are you sending your child? .

To use his common sense and have a sense of proportion, I hope. That I didn't commit a crime because I was simply present in the theater, and under those circumstances I'm not going to leave a minute before the play started to walk back to my car and lock up my firearm, and not able to get back to my seat until intermission, just to comply with the policy or wishes of the Murat.

The issue I was trying to get at in my post was not the more general issue of whether a person should honor a merchant's "No Firearms" sign in Indiana, out of respect for the merchant's wishes, but the more narrow issue of whether or not you've committed a crime if you don't. Sorry I didn't make that clear in the original post.

 

[wally05]

Right you are. Hindsight is 20/20.

In this case though, his son is 16. He could obtain a LTCH in less than 2 years.

Oops, missed that part, I must have misread the OP post.

I think signs carrying the weight of law is dumb in practice. So, is a person supposed to circle a building and make sure he checks every door/window for a sign that prohibits something he may be wearing/carrying before entering every establishment?

 

[wally05]

Not in Indiana. If there is a no trespass sign and you enter it doesn't matter if you are carrying or not, it is trespassing and nothing more.
For states where signs carry weight, the law states what the signs must say and how they must be displayed and how large the sign and text on it must be. Indiana has no such law.

Exactly. Maybe if the sign was properly displayed, the OP might have been able to return it to his car.

 

[HandK]

This is not Michigan. Michigan law does not apply.

But the OP was in Michigain when this happened!!!

 

[wally05]

But the OP was in Michigain when this happened!!!

Well, then the sign should have been properly displayed. Too bad for them.

 

[dburkhead]

Well, then the sign should have been properly displayed. Too bad for them.

Or rather, the question is: was the sign properly displayed as required by Michigan law and the OP just missed it?

And in places where such signs do have the force of law, one needs to make it a point to look for them.

 

[wally05]

Or rather, the question is: was the sign properly displayed as required by Michigan law and the OP just missed it?

And in places where such signs do have the force of law, one needs to make it a point to look for them.

He answered that earlier. It was on the front door, but it was a small sign and the door was wide open for people to enter. I believe if a sign was to have the force of law, it has to be able to be seen AT ALL times.

 

[dburkhead]

He answered that earlier. It was on the front door, but it was a small sign and the door was wide open for people to enter. I believe if a sign was to have the force of law, it has to be able to be seen AT ALL times.

Personally, I agree. It would certainly make sense.

However, how many times does the actual wording of law not make sense? It could be that the sign met the actual letter of Michigan law. If so, that just redoubles the obligation of folk who live in states where such signs do have force of law to look for them, especially if violation is "strict liability" with no "intent" required. (Not saying it is; I don't know Michigan law on the matter.)