A Close Call?

[DemolitionMan]

The other day I found myself for the first time in a situation where I thought I might have to draw my weapon -- but I'm still not entirely sure what was going on.

I had stopped at the AutoZone at Pendleton Pike and Post Road on the east side. My truck's battery terminals and cables had some corrosion on them the week before. I had gotten a little too enthusiastic in cleaning them and now the cables were fitting so loosely I needed to pick up some shims.

The neighborhood is not the best, but it was late afternoon and the parking lot fairly busy so I decided to put the shims on before heading back to the west side. The positive cable had already popped off once that day and I was through messing around with it. Of course the clamps were corroded enough that it was a bit of a struggle getting them to loosen up enough to fit the shims. So I was bent over the battery, and had just finished [STRIKE]pounding the heck out of them[/STRIKE] gently persuading them when I noticed a small truck pull up next to my Ram.

This seemed a little odd to me. I had been working on the shims long enough that many of the cars that had been in the lot with me had left, so there were plenty of open spots closer to the building. I grabbed my biggest socket wrench and got out from under the hood as a young hispanic man in a hoodie stepped up to me.

"Hey man," he said, pointing at his front bumper. "You got a screw?"

"A screw?" I wondered.

"Yeah, gotta take that off."

I realized he was pointing at a license plate on the front bumper. I couldn't get a good look at it from the angle I was at, but it didn't look like a vanity plate. I looked back at the young man. He kept looking around, glancing several times behind me. His hands were inside the pockets of his hoodie and seemed to be holding something. I was liking this less and less. As usual I was carrying my Kimber TLE II in an IWB holster and I started to wonder how quickly I could get it out from under my jacket and shirt.

"Sorry man," I told him, pointing at my socket set. "That's all I've got with me, but if you ask inside the store they'll loan you a screwdriver." That wasn't completely true. I had a pocket tool that would have worked and normally I love to help other people -- but something just seemed off.

"Inside?" he said. He looked behind me again, and then took a step forward.

Now alarm bells were going off in a major way. I was really mad at myself for not taking a better look behind me before but I wasn't about to take my eyes off him.

"Inside," I said firmly. "They'll take care of you." I still had the socket wrench, and I tapped it in my other palm. I'd decided that if things went south I was going to throw it at him and then draw.

He looked at the socket wrench, looked back up at me, then loudly said, "OK man, that's cool." He quickly got back in his truck and drove off. I looked around but did not see anyone else, although there were plenty of other places someone could have been hiding. I got my socket set back together, slammed the hood, and got the heck out of there.

So....I'm still not sure what to think. Did I overreact or was there really something more going on? It's awfully odd that he pulled up near me and so far from the store. It's strange that he wanted help taking off plate on his front bumper -- not exactly a big emergency if it was just a vanity plate he didn't want any more. His behavior was making me nervous. The fact that he drove off without going to ask for help in the store is odd too. He never made an overt threatening move though, and did not press me when I told him I didn't have a screwdriver...so maybe it was nothing but me being paranoid.

I'm curious what others think. It certainly never rose to the level of drawing my weapon, but it is the first time I've thought I might need to.

 

[IndyGunworks]

A+ i think it was excactly what you are calling it... and your awareness successfully deescelated the situation... noboby knows for sure what the true intentions were, or what would have happened had you not thought anything was awry, BUT, thats the wonderful thing about doing things the right way... you NEVER got to find out what his intentions really were.

 

[infidel]

I can't tell you if it were a close call or not, but I would have been uncomfortable as hell is that situation. Good job being assertive in the situation and being aware of your situation.

 

[shooter521]

A+ i think it was excactly what you are calling it... and your awareness successfully deescelated the situation...

In situations like that, you gotta trust your gut; IME, it's usually right.

 

[shibumiseeker]

You demonstrated that you were not ready to be a willing victim. He went in search of easier prey. Simple as that. If he'd needed a screwdriver to take his plate off he'd have gone inside.

Situational awareness, TRUST your instinct, it's telling you something.

 

[rhart]

I think that you played it nicely. Lots of times, they are just sizing up thier victums. Too many easy targets out there than to try to jack a guy that is aware of his surroundings. A lot of it is body language too. If you act timid, scared and unaware, you are a easier victum. If you just square up and look em in the eye with confidence, this can make a difference. I watch so many people completely unaware of thier surrounds all the time its amazeing.

 

[cosermann]

In situations like that, you gotta trust your gut; IME, it's usually right.

Yup, fear is often a gift (thank you Gavin de Becker). You were probably picking up on danger ques of which you're not even consciously aware.

 

[jedi]

DMan what "color" are you? I ask to get a better mindset of putting myself in your shoes. Being of mexican decent myself what you described & the area I grew up in (East Chicago, IN) I have run into similar situations like this before and have noticed that when it's another "brown color" my defenses are not as high as when a "black/white youth" approaches me.

I know my heart would have been racing as well becauase as you stated there were so many other open spaces closer to the store. Why next to me?

However since we get to review this after the fact your paranoia was a bit higher (even if the kid was a bad kid, probably was) & I think you might have lost some tactical advantage by what you did if it had gone sour.

1) If you had given him the tool his hands would not be out and with a tool as oppose to hidden.
2) Your hands are now free and can go fr your gun (not showing it but ready)
3) Kid must do the work so you add distance to yourself

From the looks of it the kid was just as freaked as you were for whatever he did/was going to do. The good thing is that your "NO" stance/attitude was enough to have him move on. The bad thing was you lost your situtational awareness 7 did not know if he was alone or not.

 

[LeeStreet]

That was an admiral job of assessing the situtation. Over the years, I've thought of many possible compromising situtations that could have gone south for me, but not anymore because of being aware of my surroundings.Thanks to the storys of others.

 

[Scutter01]

1) If you had given him the tool his hands would not be out and with a tool as oppose to hidden.
2) Your hands are now free and can go fr your gun (not showing it but ready)
3) Kid must do the work so you add distance to yourself

.

If you hand him the tool, you allow him to get even closer to you, even assuming he'll actually take it. I would be under the assumption that he didn't want the tool and was looking for an excuse to get close enough to attack. Throwing the tool, even just to toss it to the side, is enough of a distraction for you to execute your plan. At the same time, if you're standing there in the middle of a confrontation wondering how to draw from concealment, you've already lost. That should be a LOUD training wake-up call.

Take a look at this vid posted by chezuki in this thread:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/76292-owned_vids.html

Setting aside the subjkect matter and details for a moment, watch (once the attacker makes his move) how fast it goes down. Less than two seconds.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HE-poT8hfc&NR=1[/ame]

Situational awareness aside, I think the OP did a fine job of protecting himself. No one got hurt, no one is sitting in jail, both parties got to go home. I don't believe for a second that he wasn't about to be mugged.

 

[DemolitionMan]

Thanks, everyone, for the responses. I think my gut was right here, but my head is still second guessing it (more on that below).

I can't tell you if it were a close call or not, but I would have been uncomfortable as hell is that situation.

I think uncomfortable is a really good word to describe it. I couldn't shake the feeling that something wasn't right. I didn't have the heart-pounding adrenaline rush that real danger brings but it wasn't far off.

I think that you played it nicely. Lots of times, they are just sizing up thier victums.

That's what I think was happening...if so I'm glad he decided I wasn't worth the trouble.

DMan what "color" are you? I ask to get a better mindset of putting myself in your shoes. Being of mexican decent myself what you described & the area I grew up in (East Chicago, IN) I have run into similar situations like this before and have noticed that when it's another "brown color" my defenses are not as high as when a "black/white youth" approaches me.

I'm white but I'm really not uncomfortable around other races. I work with teenagers of all colors and backgrounds in Scouting, and through the military and civilian jobs I've spent a lot of time around people from all around the world.

I understand why you ask the question and I asked myself later if my reactions had anything to do with his race. I don't think they did -- I think they had everything to do with the way he was acting. For example, I grabbed the socket wrench before I came out from under the hood and knew who I was facing. Just the fact that someone pulled up next to me when I was in a vulnerable position had me concerned.

Still, I generally believe in helping others and that's one of the reasons I am second-guessing myself.

I think you might have lost some tactical advantage by what you did if it had gone sour.

1) If you had given him the tool his hands would not be out and with a tool as oppose to hidden.
2) Your hands are now free and can go fr your gun (not showing it but ready)
3) Kid must do the work so you add distance to yourself

All good points. I did think about the third point -- no way was I going to kneel down in front of his truck and do the work in that situation. As for handing him a tool, I didn't want to get closer to him and I'd already decided to toss what I had at him as a distraction if I needed to.

The bad thing was you lost your situtational awareness 7 did not know if he was alone or not.

That's the thing I'm most unhappy about in all this. I should have looked around sooner...something to keep in mind if anything like this happens again. If there was someone back there and they decided I was a good target, it might have gone badly.

 

[UltraRick]

Always trust your gut feel, instinct, Spidey sense, etc. You did good.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Still, I generally believe in helping others and that's one of the reasons I am second-guessing myself.

That's the part that really POs me about predators. 99% of the people out there are decent, but because that 1% makes everyone paranoid we all pay the price. I'm the kinda guy who'll go out of my way to help other people, and I've always been aware that predators are out there, but I've found myself less and less willing to help strangers the more I've had those situations turn bad over the years.

 

[DemolitionMan]

At the same time, if you're standing there in the middle of a confrontation wondering how to draw from concealment, you've already lost. That should be a LOUD training wake-up call.

Most of my practice has been drawing from concealment with typical business and casual clothes on. I had tried it a few times with a jacket, but you're right -- the fact that I was concerned about whether I could draw quickly enough is a signal to work on that more.

Setting aside the subjkect matter and details for a moment, watch (once the attacker makes his move) how fast it goes down. Less than two seconds.

That was completely awesome. Even though it was a bad idea, I love the fact that she chases after him -- wow did he pick on the wrong girl!

 

[Scutter01]

That was completely awesome. Even though it was a bad idea, I love the fact that she chases after him -- wow did he pick on the wrong girl!

You could see how he'd already made up his mind what he was going to do when he chased down the elevator before the doors closed. Everything after that was just getting up the courage to do it. Once he found his moment, the whole thing was over in seconds (minus the beat-down )


That's the same thing the your potential mugger was doing. He'd already decided to mug you, he was just looking for the opening. Thankfully, you did not give him that chance.

It's important to train in all conditions, not just "ideal". Train with heavy clothes and light, in cold and warmth, with hands that are wet, sticky, tired. Do a hundred pushups and then draw. Dump "blood" (Karo syrup and water) on your hands and then draw. Practice outside when it's 5 degrees out and you're wearing heavy gloves. Do it until you don't even think "How would I draw"? We've got a bunch of trainers on INGO and many of them do some variant of CQC and force-on-force. I recommend it.

 

[samrothstein01]

Still, I generally believe in helping others and that's one of the reasons I am second-guessing myself.

I'm the kinda guy who'll go out of my way to help other people, and I've always been aware that predators are out there, but I've found myself less and less willing to help strangers the more I've had those situations turn bad over the years.

I think many of us are "helpers" in the sense that we will go out of our way to help someone in need of our assistance. The one thing to keep in mind though is the sense of reward/risk. In this circumstance, the reward is helping a guy remove his license plate...not something I would consider critical or a "need". The risk however was significant.

It would be much different if that person were stranded in the freezing cold with a car that wouldn't start, and needed a screwdriver to assist with fixing it. Then their need actually has an impact on their health and well being, and there is a greater sense of reward for helping them. At that point, I might be willing to go a little futher with my assistance, as long as the other cue's appear to be in order. (As you mentioned, if they are acting funny and the circumstances don't line up, no need to risk your life. Call the cops.)

Basically, removal of a license plate is worth less risk than helping someone stranded, of which none of it is worth risking your life. But as the severity of the situation increases, so does my level of willingness to assist.

Just my

 

[Hornett]

Maybe the poor guy couldn't speak English very well.
But just sounds more like the interview phase of a crime.

You failed the interview.
Congratulations!!

 

[pig957]

I don't think he was there to help you with your problem!!

 

[Srtsi4wd]

My initial thoughts were that if you had offered a screwdriver he would have tried for a minute and then asked if you could help him take the plate off. As soon as you leaned down to have a look, pow, lights out. He did not want the Autozone employees to see him or he would have gone in.

I think you were correct to trust your instincts. Loan a tool to help in an emergency, front vanity plates are definitely NOT an emergency.

 

[cosermann]

Still, I generally believe in helping others and that's one of the reasons I am second-guessing myself.

Sure, me too, but it's important to realize that predators will often use that desire to help others against you.