380 Bullets in 38 Special Makeshift Berry’s Backwards Handload

[Squid556]

I got a Charter 38 recently and I wanted to see if I could make some handloads using just what I have on hand. These Berry’s bullets I use in both 9mm and .380 they are a couple tho undersize but I was curious if I could make ‘em work.

My first attempt revealed that Remington 38 spl brass didn’t have enough neck tension to hold. However every other case I had tensioned just fine. I loaded this deep as I could on top of 3 grains of Titegroup. A recipe I have used in 380 with good effect.

Loaded 5 up and shot em. Realized that there was so much empty volume that they had become orientation sensitive. Primer pushed the bullet out the barrel two times. Managed to find this fella on the ground. Note my crimp was not too excessive as to ruin the plating.

The other 3 shots I tipped it back and they fired just fine. Fairly mild. Upon inspection I found that the burn kinda sucked, lots of powder left over.

So my second go was to load the bullet upside down sort of like a full wad cutter. They turned out pretty good.

All five of these fired even when I tipped the powder forward. Accuracy was okay ish… except for this strange flyer. Shots taken at 7yds.

I even dressed a couple of water jugs up in flannel and shot them to see if the hollow base would expand.

Cut a clean hole through jug 1

Exited jug 2, hit the 1/4 inch OSB and fell to the ground. Not very impressive energy transfer like I was hoping. Seems lethal though. Managed to recover it. You can see my crimp on this one as well

Although these loads do work…. I’m very unhappy with using Titegroup in this recipe. Too much case volume and the burn sucked even with the upside down load. Looking to try some bullseye next to see if it will make a difference.

I’d be glad to read your favorite 38 standard pressure loads down below.

 

[Magyars]

Mine is a 158gr LSWC behind 3.5gr Red Dot and CCI primer

 

[russc2542]

I've been playing with 115gr berry's xtreme DEEP in .357 cases (.38 length) with 4.5gr of titegroup (.38 load... 9mm load too but the extra space in the case tones it down). A bit of pop because Titegroup's fast but very mild. Accurate enough for Monday night steel but nowhere near the accuracy I'd like.

 

[Leadeye]

I'm not familiar with what alloy Berrys uses, but it looks soft from your pictures. I would take advantage of that hollow base and load it facing the powder as you are probably getting some bump up of the projectile to engage the rifeling. You might try Trail Boss for a powder, I use it for old BP pistol cartridges like 45 Colt, it's a fast burner, but should not be considered as a BP substitute in BP guns.

After reading your post I'll get some Berry's bullets to try in my old Colt Lightnings with BP, do they all have a hollow base? I run 38 special 148 HBWC in them now.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Titegroup is good for expanding hollowbases, if you can manage to load it that way. The pressures being applied to the conical surface I would think is going to affect accuracy.

What primer were you using?

 

[Creedmoor]

I run DEWC in 38's, depending on pistol is 3.0 or 3.2 of Bullseye.
How about trimming 38 special cases down close to 38 S&W case lenght?
Or somewhere in between?

 

[Squid556]

Titegroup is good for expanding hollowbases, if you can manage to load it that way. The pressures being applied to the conical surface I would think is going to affect accuracy.

What primer were you using?

CCI small pistol. I forgot to include that in the original post.

 

[Squid556]

I run DEWC in 38's, depending on pistol is 3.0 or 3.2 of Bullseye.
How about trimming 38 special cases down close to 38 S&W case lenght?
Or somewhere in between?

I hadn’t considered that. Should work just fine id think. Might even take care of the tension issue with Remington brass too. The thought did cross my mind to seat deeper and use a different crimper die. But that would negate the point of the project

 

[Squid556]

I'm not familiar with what alloy Berrys uses, but it looks soft from your pictures. I would take advantage of that hollow base and load it facing the powder as you are probably getting some bump up of the projectile to engage the rifeling. You might try Trail Boss for a powder, I use it for old BP pistol cartridges like 45 Colt, it's a fast burner, but should not be considered as a BP substitute in BP guns.

After reading your post I'll get some Berry's bullets to try in my old Colt Lightnings with BP, do they all have a hollow base? I run 38 special 148 HBWC in them now.

Trail boss is on my list to get. I’ve seen it used lots of times for reduced loads. Berrys have a lot of profiles they cast. Not all have the hollow base. I generally like their stuff.

 

[Leadeye]

Trail boss is on my list to get. I’ve seen it used lots of times for reduced loads. Berrys have a lot of profiles they cast. Not all have the hollow base. I generally like their stuff.

I've never used Berry's as I cast most of what I shoot. Hollow base stuff for 38 LC and 41 LC is a pain so I use the 148 HBWC for the 38 LC.

 

[DadSmith]

I run DEWC in 38's, depending on pistol is 3.0 or 3.2 of Bullseye.
How about trimming 38 special cases down close to 38 S&W case lenght?
Or somewhere in between?

My favorite bullet for 38 special. They make perfect holes in the target and seem to be the most accurate other than Hornady XTP bullets.

 

[Squid556]

Thought y’all might like an update.

Obviously the Titegroup work was a no go. Worked out a trade with a friend and acquired a pound of Bullseye. I worked up a bit and this is the recipe I’m going to load

-Berrys 100gr .356 plated round nose hollow base seated to 1.450” medium crimp. NOT loaded backwards

-4.0 gr Bullseye +\- 0.1 (I shot up to 4.3 with no issues, just don’t want them too hot due to the aluminum frame.) All charges weighed for consistency.

-Federal small pistol primer

No Remington cases, not enough neck tension for undersized bullets.

Wife and I shot 20 of them today with good results. Here is a 5 shot group at 7 yards using just the crimson trace laser.

Recoil and report seemed appropriate for an alloy 38 snubbie. No backed out primers, no mouse farts. Accuracy is appropriate but I do think there is some lost accuracy potential with the undersize bullet.

All in all, I did managed to use one bullet for 9x19, 380, and 38spl. My goal of seeing if I could get a working load with what’s on hand worked, however I wouldn’t recommend anyone willingly choose these if you have appropriate bullets on hand for 38 spl.

 

[Leadeye]

You looked like you had good engraving on the bullet with Titegroup, Bullseye should do even better with that hollow base. I'm going to see what they have in hollow base and try them in my guns that shoot BP.

 

[Squid556]

You looked like you had good engraving on the bullet with Titegroup, Bullseye should do even better with that hollow base. I'm going to see what they have in hollow base and try them in my guns that shoot BP.

Is there any advantage to the hollow base besides the better seal?
Also not too sure how much that base really swells to the bore more than a normal bullet. It didn’t deform at all even when the base of the bullet was driven into water.

 

[t-squared]

From what I’ve read, it’s not so much that the hollow base expands for better seal, but that it allows for a longer bearing surface to the bore, thus resulting in better accuracy.
There’s also some that believe the “weight forward” of the hollow base design helps with accuracy.

 

[Greffy]

As for the inadequate bullet tension with Remington brass, did you consider using a 380 ACP die for the case mouth, or even a 9mm size die? Lacking that I would try a taper crimp die for .38 / .357 as a back up (or even first) plan.

Thanks for the write up, good to be aware of this!

 

[Squid556]

As for the inadequate bullet tension with Remington brass, did you consider using a 380 ACP die for the case mouth, or even a 9mm size die? Lacking that I would try a taper crimp die for .38 / .357 as a back up (or even first) plan.

Thanks for the write up, good to be aware of this!

I hadn’t even considered that. Could just use it for the first section of brass that holds the bullet itself. Worth a try!