308 loads for Hoosier deer

[42769vette]

If I hunt with a 308, I already run 168 AMAX over 42.5 GR of Varget in my SCAR 17, so I will probably stick with that.

 

[Broom_jm]

If I hunt with a 308, I already run 168 AMAX over 42.5 GR of Varget in my SCAR 17, so I will probably stick with that.

Are those bullets suitable for big game hunting? I know some of the target bullets are actually heavy enough and have a high enough sectional density to work for thin-skinned medium game, like deer, but others are too frangible to be well-suited to the task. The 308 rifle I'm loading for shoots groups that are under 1/2 MOA with 155gr AMAX bullets, but I would not use them for deer hunting.

 

[42769vette]

Are those bullets suitable for big game hunting? I know some of the target bullets are actually heavy enough and have a high enough sectional density to work for thin-skinned medium game, like deer, but others are too frangible to be well-suited to the task. The 308 rifle I'm loading for shoots groups that are under 1/2 MOA with 155gr AMAX bullets, but I would not use them for deer hunting.

They are fine for hunting. I put a 105 amax in a pronghorns sholder, and was very pleased with the expansion. I know pronghorn are not as "tough" as deer, but 105gr is not 168 gr either.

Are AMAX'S Barnes TTXS's? Absolutely not.

Will they drop game in their tracks with a well placed shot? Absolutely.

Yesterday I went out and shot groups with my load which i never do after development just to make me feel better.


Out of my 6, 5 shot groups at 150 yds, the biggest was a hair bigger than a quarter (roughly 1 inch). The smallest was a tie with both groups the size of a dime (outside to outside).

These were fired laying in the dirt with a bipod and a fist. No fancy bench. Should make powerful deer medicine if i go that route. I dont know that i will have time to load and pratice for the 358, so the 308 might get the nod, as i shoot it weekly anyways no extra pratice/sightin required.

 

[avboiler11]

Hornady has gel data for the 155 and 168 Amax (TAP bullets) on their HornadyLE website.

I'd say extremely suitable...

 

[Broom_jm]

Looks to me like the 155gr AMAX would go in, blow up, devastate soft tissue, and probably not exit. It would kill very well, but leave little blood trail if the deer ran off. That is not acceptable terminal performance from a big game bullet...an exit wound is highly desirable.

Hornadyle.com - 155 gr. A-MAX® TAP PRECISION®

In gelatin tests that best simulate big game hunting, (pure gelatin and wallboard) the 168gr AMAX looks like it would perform better, with improved penetration (on the wallboard, which is most comparable) and a higher weight retention across all tests. This bullet would likely retain the mass to create a large exit wound.

Hornadyle.com - 168 gr. A-MAX® TAP PRECISION®

Both would surely kill a deer, if properly placed...but I wouldn't bet on consistently getting a blood trail with the 155's. I'm positive the 165gr Hornady Interlock BTSP will perform reliably on deer, hogs or even elk, should that come to pass.

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: 308 Winchester :: 308 Win 165 gr InterLock® BTSP

 

[42769vette]

Looks to me like the 155gr AMAX would go in, blow up, devastate soft tissue, and probably not exit. It would kill very well, but leave little blood trail if the deer ran off. That is not acceptable terminal performance from a big game bullet...an exit wound is highly desirable.

Hornadyle.com - 155 gr. A-MAX® TAP PRECISION®

In gelatin tests that best simulate big game hunting, (pure gelatin and wallboard) the 168gr AMAX looks like it would perform better, with improved penetration (on the wallboard, which is most comparable) and a higher weight retention across all tests. This bullet would likely retain the mass to create a large exit wound.

Hornadyle.com - 168 gr. A-MAX® TAP PRECISION®

Both would surely kill a deer, if properly placed...but I wouldn't bet on consistently getting a blood trail with the 155's. I'm positive the 165gr Hornady Interlock BTSP will perform reliably on deer, hogs or even elk, should that come to pass.

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: 308 Winchester :: 308 Win 165 gr InterLock® BTSP

I try and not overthink things. You have to remember, Indians killed these things with a stick and string (nothing like what we use today) for years. If my bullet goes in, blows up heart lungs, and doesnt exit (I think it will exit) that deer is going to fall down dead pretty quickly. If there is little blood, I know how to track without blood, so im just fine. If all that fails, nothing can hide its heat signature, so I will break out a thermal, and find it anyways. Ive killed 40-50 deer in my life, and never lost a single one. Shot placement is key.

Ive only killed a handful of animals with the AMAX. The pronghorn at 300ish had an exit, as did all the coyotes.

 

[phatgemi]

I try and not overthink things. You have to remember, Indians killed these things with a stick and string (nothing like what we use today) for years. If my bullet goes in, blows up heart lungs, and doesnt exit (I think it will exit) that deer is going to fall down dead pretty quickly. If there is little blood, I know how to track without blood, so im just fine. If all that fails, nothing can hide its heat signature, so I will break out a thermal, and find it anyways. Ive killed 40-50 deer in my life, and never lost a single one. Shot placement is key.

Ive only killed a handful of animals with the AMAX. The pronghorn at 300ish had an exit, as did all the coyotes.

You might want to check with DNR. I've been told that its illegal to use thermal for deer locating. Same as dogs.

 

[42769vette]

You might want to check with DNR. I've been told that its illegal to use thermal for deer locating. Same as dogs.

I was under the impression its illegal to harvest deer with thermal, but I assumed anything to recover a deer was good to go. This is the first year Ive ever hunted since owning thermal, so I will check on that if I need to use the thermal to find one. Ive never had one run over 100 yds, so I doubt the I need it.

 

[Broom_jm]

I try and not overthink things. You have to remember, Indians killed these things with a stick and string (nothing like what we use today) for years. If my bullet goes in, blows up heart lungs, and doesnt exit (I think it will exit) that deer is going to fall down dead pretty quickly. If there is little blood, I know how to track without blood, so im just fine. If all that fails, nothing can hide its heat signature, so I will break out a thermal, and find it anyways. Ive killed 40-50 deer in my life, and never lost a single one. Shot placement is key.

Ive only killed a handful of animals with the AMAX. The pronghorn at 300ish had an exit, as did all the coyotes.

I've killed a like number of deer and hogs, with none ever lost from a rifle shot, (lost a doe bow-hunting) but any bullet that does not exit a big game animal has failed, in my book...even if the critter drops where it stood. I ask four things from a big game bullet:

Accuracy - A bullet must hit where it was aimed, first and foremost...almost to the exclusion of all else, to your point.
Penetration - A bullet must penetrate through and through, reliably, leaving an exit wound that bleeds well, ideally.
Expansion - If designed to do so, a bullet must expand fairly early in the penetration process, but not so much that it fails to create an exit wound.
Energy - A bullet needs enough energy to do all of the above, making energy by far the least important attribute of most cartridge/bullet combinations.

 

[42769vette]

I've killed a like number of deer and hogs, with none ever lost from a rifle shot, (lost a doe bow-hunting) but any bullet that does not exit a big game animal has failed, in my book...even if the critter drops where it stood. I ask four things from a big game bullet:

Accuracy - A bullet must hit where it was aimed, first and foremost...almost to the exclusion of all else, to your point.
Penetration - A bullet must penetrate through and through, reliably, leaving an exit wound that bleeds well, ideally.
Expansion - If designed to do so, a bullet must expand fairly early in the penetration process, but not so much that it fails to create an exit wound.
Energy - A bullet needs enough energy to do all of the above, making energy by far the least important attribute of most cartridge/bullet combinations.

All those things are great, I guess I'm just simpler. I require a bullet to go where I tell it to. Deer are not cape buffalo. If I tell the bullet to go to the right spot, and it does what I tell it to, then good things will happen.

I was scouting tonight, and watching a young 10 point. It got very nervous (I knew it wasnt me, I was 250 yds away, with the wind in my face). I have a specific stand I can see 1/2-3/4 a mile from, that I sit in while scouting. Closest shot from this stand would 200 yds, so I dont even take a bow when sitting in it. I take rifle in case I see a yote (today it was the same SCAR, with the same 168 AMAX). A coyote popped his head and shoulders over the hill behind the buck at roughly 300-325 yds. I shot the coyote in the neck, it went down, and through the shoulder blade leaving a quarter size exit hole. The coyote dropped, and all was right with the world.

 

[Broom_jm]

All those things are great, I guess I'm just simpler. I require a bullet to go where I tell it to. Deer are not cape buffalo. If I tell the bullet to go to the right spot, and it does what I tell it to, then good things will happen.

I was scouting tonight, and watching a young 10 point. It got very nervous (I knew it wasnt me, I was 250 yds away, with the wind in my face). I have a specific stand I can see 1/2-3/4 a mile from, that I sit in while scouting. Closest shot from this stand would 200 yds, so I dont even take a bow when sitting in it. I take rifle in case I see a yote (today it was the same SCAR, with the same 168 AMAX). A coyote popped his head and shoulders over the hill behind the buck at roughly 300-325 yds. I shot the coyote in the neck, it went down, and through the shoulder blade leaving a quarter size exit hole. The coyote dropped, and all was right with the world.

I respect all legal actions of other hunters, doing my best to avoid any of the "ethics" discussions. I have learned that Indiana is quite unique when it comes to big game hunting with a rifle, due to the decades of regulations restricting method of take. Having done most of my hunting in areas of CA, WI, and MI where normal rifle cartridges are allowed, I have a different perspective on what constitutes a good deer bullet than a lot of other Hoosiers. Having hunted very steep mountain sides out West, and incredibly thick swamps back East, I have adhered to conventional wisdom and bullets that leave a good-sized hole on their way out. In some places, a deer that runs 100 yards is either very difficult to track (wet swamps) or very difficult to recover (up the side of a cliff). That's why I like heavier bullets at more modest velocities for big game.

A perfect example is the 308 I might hunt deer with this fall, in Indiana. I "could" use the 155gr A-Max load, which is extremely accurate. It would probably work very well in almost all cases. Instead, I bought a heavier bullet, constructed for big game hunting, knowing that it will more reliably do ALL of the things a big game bullet should do, including leaving that big exit wound. I'm still getting 1" groups with it, at 100 yards, which is more than sufficient for deer hunting, so I'm not compromising on accuracy...but I'm also not compromising on terminal performance.

I think the 168gr A-MAX, with its higher Sectional Density, is probably a solid choice for deer hunting...but I KNOW the 165gr Interlock bullet is. In the places I hunt, it has the reliable attributes I'm looking for in a big game bullet. YMMV

 

[avboiler11]

I respect all legal actions of other hunters, doing my best to avoid any of the "ethics" discussions.

This is INGO, we can't have that kind of logic around here.

Lots o' different ways to get to the same place, be it with a TSX, a SMK, or "the deadliest mushroom in the woods".

 

[RMC]

All those things are great, I guess I'm just simpler. I require a bullet to go where I tell it to. Deer are not cape buffalo. If I tell the bullet to go to the right spot, and it does what I tell it to, then good things will happen.

I was scouting tonight, and watching a young 10 point. It got very nervous (I knew it wasnt me, I was 250 yds away, with the wind in my face). I have a specific stand I can see 1/2-3/4 a mile from, that I sit in while scouting. Closest shot from this stand would 200 yds, so I dont even take a bow when sitting in it. I take rifle in case I see a yote (today it was the same SCAR, with the same 168 AMAX). A coyote popped his head and shoulders over the hill behind the buck at roughly 300-325 yds. I shot the coyote in the neck, it went down, and through the shoulder blade leaving a quarter size exit hole. The coyote dropped, and all was right with the world.

Yotes?! My 22-250 loves yokes.

I can almost choose the hair I want to hit.

I have a BLR 308 that is fantastic for deer but it has iron sights and can't compete with my 22-250 in accuracy. However, I have seen some 300 mags and 338s that can. I'm leaning towards the 338 for moose and elk although I have a very capable 30-06 and 7mm mag.

 

[phatgemi]

I've read with interest this and the .243 post. I happen to have both calibers available in a H&R handi rifle. I'm bouncing back and forth on which to use. I load the 243 with 100 gr sierra gameking and the 308 with the 150 gr sierra gameking. I know a lot of you guys don't have much love for the sierras but i've had decent luck and the rifles seem to like them. Cost is a slight factor. I hunt in the edge of woods with most shots under one hundred yards but do have occasional opportunity in bean/corn field for a longer shot on deer walking across the power line. These would be in the range of 200-250. Personally I think either is a good choice with the 308 perhaps a slight edge. Opinions????

 

[Hookeye]

I'll be running a ".308 light" (.300 Savage) and a .243 win.
See what kinda holes both make.

 

[Hookeye]

FWIW us idiot Hoosiers.........a lot of us liked a decent hole in and out of our deer, before being blessed by HP rifle allowance.
Really, by stupid Hoosier rifle logic......the only time you'd want a bullet to stay inside the critter is in varmint hunting.

Finding what you killed is easier when there's a two lane road of red to Deadcritterville.

Bows, MZ, shotgun and handgun.......plus PCR.........I think it'd proly be a good thing in HP rifle too.
Maybe to a lesser extent with HP, but still nice to have.

 

[RMC]

I've read with interest this and the .243 post. I happen to have both calibers available in a H&R handi rifle. I'm bouncing back and forth on which to use. I load the 243 with 100 gr sierra gameking and the 308 with the 150 gr sierra gameking. I know a lot of you guys don't have much love for the sierras but i've had decent luck and the rifles seem to like them. Cost is a slight factor. I hunt in the edge of woods with most shots under one hundred yards but do have occasional opportunity in bean/corn field for a longer shot on deer walking across the power line. These would be in the range of 200-250. Personally I think either is a good choice with the 308 perhaps a slight edge. Opinions????

Both are well capable of taking deer cleanly. Choose the rifle you are most comfortable with and can put the bullet where it needs to be.

 

[Broom_jm]

I've read with interest this and the .243 post. I happen to have both calibers available in a H&R handi rifle. I'm bouncing back and forth on which to use. I load the 243 with 100 gr sierra gameking and the 308 with the 150 gr sierra gameking. I know a lot of you guys don't have much love for the sierras but i've had decent luck and the rifles seem to like them. Cost is a slight factor. I hunt in the edge of woods with most shots under one hundred yards but do have occasional opportunity in bean/corn field for a longer shot on deer walking across the power line. These would be in the range of 200-250. Personally I think either is a good choice with the 308 perhaps a slight edge. Opinions????

Can't go wrong with either, presuming you place your shot well. Deer just aren't that hard to kill. Sometimes they drop where they stood and sometimes they run off a bit, but either cartridge will get the job done.

With my 243 Handi-rifle, I found I had to drop down to 85gr Partition bullets, because it wouldn't group well with the longer 100gr pills...kept key-holing. Not a problem in my dad's M700.

 

[FFJakeT]

Hate to bring up a old thread. But don't want to start a new one, I have a .308, 22 " , 1:10 twist. Everything I see says 168-175. It did not like 165's shot 168 ok, had very few 168's to shoot and shot them to get on paper , (new gun, thought the 165s would be fine.) yet from most post I've seen, everyone is running 150 and under, why?am I right about the 168-175.?

 

[avboiler11]

Did you try the 168 Amax?