.30 Carbine sucess & question on crimp

[jedi]

I was finally able to get out and shoot the .30 carbine reloads I have been working on and
1) I did not blow up
2) the M1 .30 carbine auto-ordnance paratrooper rifle did not blow up
3) all the ammo did work

Here are the prior threads on this adventure.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...7124-trim_length_for_30_carbine_question.html
and
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ne_rounds_load_oal_and_lee_fcd_questions.html

This is what I shot:
Bullet used: Berry's Preferred Plated Bullet 110 gr RN (.308)
Cases: Aguila cases trimmed to 1.286 to 1.284
Powder: Winchester 296

10 rounds @ 14 grains with Lee FCD
05 rounds @ 14 grains with NO Lee FCD

15 rounds @ 14.2 grains with Lee FCD
05 rounds @ 14.2 grain with NO Lee FCD

10 rounds @ 14.5 grains with Lee FCD
05 rounds @ 14.5 grains with NO Lee FCD

In shooting order
five - 14 grain with Lee FCD and they all worked.
five - 14 grain without Lee FCD and they all worked.
five - 14.2 grain with Lee FCD and they all worked.
five - 14.2 grain without Lee FCD and they all worked.
five - 14.5 grain with Lee FCD and they all worked.

Next had my cousin load 10 rounds mixing the 14 and 14.5 grain so only he knew what the order was.
Shoot them all and did noticed some difference.

Shoots at 14 grain felt smoother. Shoots at 14.5 I felt the gun rise a bit more, it was more snappy, and a follow up shot required me to bring the gun back to position more. I was able to guess 7 of the 10 rounds correctly in terms of what the grainage was.

So based on these results I will continue to load at 14 grain as the rifle likes it as so do it.

The only question is why does the Lee FCD in this case (this round) not do anything? Seems like I can just remove it from the process (ie. no crimping needed) and get away with it for this rounds.

 

[billybob44]

Who you going to call??

Calling Broom_jm

Calling Broom_jm

Calling Broom_jm

 

[Duron219]

Glad to hear it all worked out for you

 

[jcwit]

I've been reloading .30 Carbine for years now. I use my own cast bullets Lee #90301, 100 gr., sized to .310. I use 12 grains of 4227 for the charge. The lube I use is my own mix of Bees wax, paraffine, carnuba wax and mineral oil.

I get excellent accuracy and no leading whats so ever. Plus its a pleasure to shoot and impossible to double charge.

 

[Broom_jm]

Huh...I thought my ears were burning from the wood fire I've had going today.

Yep, that sounds like a successful outing with the 30 Carbine and excellent reloads. I use 15 grains of the same H110/W296 powder, but I'm also using jacketed bullets. If I were to use plated or cast, and wanted to slow 'em down a mite, I'd drop to ~14 grains, or maybe a slightly slower powder, like AA1680.

I've never crimped 30 carbine loads in any way, so I can't explain why the Lee FCD didn't make any difference. Maybe it's just not needed? What was your accuracy like? As good as factory; better, worse? Can't really tell with open sights?

I put a Williams receiver-mounted peep sight on my 30 carbine and the improvement in group sizes was truly impressive. I ring the 8" steel with it at 100 yards just about every time, now. Not bad for a gun that's meant to be used at 50 feet.

 

[jedi]

Huh...I thought my ears were burning from the wood fire I've had going today.

Yep, that sounds like a successful outing with the 30 Carbine and excellent reloads. I use 15 grains of the same H110/W296 powder, but I'm also using jacketed bullets. If I were to use plated or cast, and wanted to slow 'em down a mite, I'd drop to ~14 grains, or maybe a slightly slower powder, like AA1680.

I've never crimped 30 carbine loads in any way, so I can't explain why the Lee FCD didn't make any difference. Maybe it's just not needed? What was your accuracy like? As good as factory; better, worse? Can't really tell with open sights?

I put a Williams receiver-mounted peep sight on my 30 carbine and the improvement in group sizes was truly impressive. I ring the 8" steel with it at 100 yards just about every time, now. Not bad for a gun that's meant to be used at 50 feet.

Well as for accuracy no real idea with this outing. I was more concern that the gun would blow up or not cycle. Now that I know it won't I can load up more.

In my first 2 outing with the rifle and using Aguila commercial ammo on the 25 yard my groupings were good but the issue was the rifle was aiming high. Did not have a ruler with me but when using this target on the 25 yard.

I would aim for the center and the holes were appear right above the head. When I would aim for the bottom of the target the holes would appear at the center.

I was using this target today

and while I was aiming for the center the holes were appearing on the 8 so again still aiming high.

My next outing I will be taking a ruler so I can measure the amount that it's high and then use this post info
Formula For Changing Height of Front Sight
to increase my front sight with this stuff J-B Weld
J-B Weld | Original Cold Weld Formula Steel Reinforced Epoxy

--update--
BTW I did notice that the brass was nasty dirty and sort of had a 'slimy' coating to it still.
I'm using a brass catcher so nothing is hitting the ground but it looks like the imperial wax (some of it at least) was still on the casings and they are blackish right now. If I take a rag I can wipe it off though.

Also as for the crimp die. when I crimped the ones I did and I had the crimp set to MAX I could feel it but just barely. I did not see a measured difference with my capilars either nor was the bullet squished like it is when I use the Lee FCD on my .45.

 

[jcwit]

I rinse my cases in gas to remove the sizing lube before priming, gets rid of all the lube, I use Imperial or Mink Oil. I also tumble my cases before priming.

Just a question here, why do you wish to load up more as you put it? Do the paper targets die faster? Try loading for accuracy. My load of 12 grains of 4227 behind my cast 100 grain bullet gives me groups under 2 inches at 50 yards. Ain't gonna get much better using cast bullets in a carbine with iron sights.

 

[jedi]

@jcwit

I bought 250 rounds of aguila when I got the rifle. In my 1st two outings I went thru 200 rounds getting to lnow the rifle and figured out that it shoots high. When Istarted to reload for it Ionly did 50 rounds since was not sure if it would work. So right now I'm down to just the 50 commerical rounds Ihave. Need to load more since I'm out. =) iwould like to fix the shooting high issue before Itry for accuracy. Since I'm getting the same results groups at higher than aimpoiint.

This rifle is just a stepping stone for me. Have been usimg a 10/22 for a year now doing applexeed targets. This year Iwant to urjse this rifle for the appleseed targets and hopefully by middle of next year Imove up to .308 either heavy scar or m1a & then do appleseed.

 

[Broom_jm]

H110/W296 can be a little dirty, particularly at the lower end of the suitable charge weights. You can try inching up to a max charge, which might seal the chamber better, resulting in less gas leaking back around the case. Then again, it might not, if your chamber happens to be "generous", like mine is.

I've read reports that claim Li'l Gun runs cleaner, but it doesn't make much difference to me. They all get tumbled before sizing, and again (briefly) afterwards, before priming and reloading. How dirty they are is of little consequence, as long as I can find them in the grass or at the range.

You may also find that as your charge weight goes up, your groups come down, without moving your sights. Why? Well, the bullet is in the barrel for a shorter time, meaning the muzzle hasn't risen as much, so your groups drop. Try it and see?

 

[jcwit]

Something to consider. The trajectory of a bullet is an arc, even tho it starts falling the minute it leaves the barrel. The barrel is elevated to produce this arc. You are shooting at only 25 yds, more than likely said bullet is in the process of still rising because of the elevated barrel and the sight settings. Its very likely if you would try to sight in for 50 yards you will come closser to point of aim.

If I knew how to show pictures I would, but that is beyond my ability.

Best

 

[jedi]

@jcwit

I did shoot the rifle in NOV on the 100 yard with a spotter with me and we got the same results as on the 25 yard. Groups were tight but high same result as what occurred yesterday.

I'll try some more in 14.5 and see if that helps in terms of the grouping. Will do some 15g as well before I try the j-b weld stuff. Sadly may not be able to get back to the range till FEB. =(

----
UPDATE
-----
Actually I may not be able to do 15g with this bullet type plated bullets as I don't think they can take that level of velocity. So I might be stuck at the 14.5 (MAX) side for it.

 

[jcwit]

Give it a try, let us know how it turns out. My thinking now after your last post is you have a sight problem.

We'll see what the folks have to say over on The High Road.

 

[jedi]

aaaaaaahhhhhhh jcwit is following me on the net.
=) hehehe

 

[jcwit]

aaaaaaahhhhhhh jcwit is following me on the net.
=) hehehe

Didn't realize it till you made the reply post #10 on The High Road. Here you call yourself jedi, on The High Road you're jediagh, I didn't catch it.

 

[jedi]

Didn't realize it till you made the reply post #10 on The High Road. Here you call yourself jedi, on The High Road you're jediagh, big deal, folks post the same questions on numerous forums all the time, I didn't catch it.

Whats your problem with it? I've been a member on THR longer than you've been a member here soooooooooooooooo!

More than a little childish on your part IMO!

i was/am joking about it!
hence my hehehe... sry can't do purple right now only have 1 hand free, sleeping baby on other 1.

ps
i was jediagh here but have slowly moved to jedi where i can online some times its taken while jediagh it not

 

[jcwit]

Need help--Try here

http://www.jouster.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?7-M1-Carbine-Forum

 

[jcwit]

Need help--Try here

M1 Carbine Forum

or here

http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=6

or here

http://m14forum.com/steel-wood/

 

[jedi]

thanks what i have found is that apart from here and thr when i post about the replica .30 carbine i'm looked down on for having a replica and asking questions in the .30 carbine section as if i dont have a real .30 carbine

a gun is a gun is a gun. they all shoot and that is all i care about.

 

[jcwit]

i was/am joking about it!
hence my hehehe... sry can't do purple right now only have 1 hand free, sleeping baby on other 1.

ps
i was jediagh here but have slowly moved to jedi where i can online some times its taken while jediagh it not

Gotcha! This is a problem I find with the written word, so often can be taken wrong! Take care of the little one!!

Best
jcwit